Carmaker Mentality

Technology What makes a car Good
1

i was reading about BMW 5 Series Station Wagon and whether it will come to US:

and came across this fascinating discussion:

the perception of wagons is significantly different in the US than in Europe. While customers from the Old Continent buy Touring models for their extra cargo capacity and the more convenient tailgate, Americans are about styling:

“When we discuss [this topic] with the U.S. colleagues or with the dealers, it’s very interesting because the demographics are totally different from Europe. For US dealers, the Touring’s design is a key thing, it’s a standout. Whereas in Europe, the touring is a practical, functional, and family-oriented car.”

BMW learned from a recent meeting with US dealers that a high-end 5 Series Touring is on the wishlist. The luxury brand is analyzing requests but cautions it doesn’t want to flood the US with a plethora of wagons. Internal analysis showed only top-tier versions make sense, which is why the G99 was the first to get the green light.

“That’s why they [dealers] also emphasized that to make it work effectively, it must operate within this unique, high-power niche. Additionally, they stated that only top-tier products, associated with a unique design, are effective. If you expand the volume too much or broaden the range excessively, you dilute the impact. Maintain the level it is developing towards—something unique and iconic. However, be cautious. Do not push it too hard because it does not sell on the same credentials that Touring has in Europe. Keep it at a top level of uniqueness. Also, manage the volume, and then it will be successful. But be careful. Do not become too excited. As soon as you make it mainstream, it will destroy itself. The trend will self-destruct.”

translated into English: the reason BMW ( and other European Automakers ) don’t sell wagons in USA isn’t because there is no demand …

but because the demand will disappear if they start selling them …

that is to say the main reason Americans want Wagons is because they can’t have them …

and BMW / Euro Automakers understand this and refuse to sell Wagons in US so that Americans continue to demand them …

as an example my Volvo S60 has a V60 wagon variant but it is only available as fully loaded Polestar trim with golden brakes, golden seatbelts, Bowers & Wilkins Audio and Ohlins shocks … at which point it is more expensive than a BMW so of course nobody buys them …

every European Automaker has great wagons they sell in Europe and refuse to sell in America. or rather they are only offered in America as very overpriced and niche models and only from time to time. we now know why.

these cars must be kept rare and out of reach to maintain the image of being Euro-Performance … if the market is flooded with affordable Wagons their image will revert to that of being 1980s cargo haulers destroying the demand …

2

the reason this is interesting is because you have to understand they apply the same logic to other cars as well …

for example this is why Porsches are overpriced … it’s not because they can’t make them cheaper … it’s because if Porsches become affordable nobody will want them …

for example in my Estimate it probably costs double to make Porsche Panamera versus VolksWagen Passat … but it actually sells for FIVE TIMES as much …

every car below Panamera, meaning the entire Audi range including 7 and 8 are deliberately crippled to protect Porsche’s “superior engineering” image and then Panamera itself is deliberately overpriced to protect its exclusivity …

that $40,000 hybrid battery replacement on Panamera ? it’s mainly just there to make sure you think twice before buying a Porsche. they literally DO NOT WANT you to buy their car because every time some nobody like me buys a Porsche they take the prestige of the brand down a notch. it is supposed to be for Ballers only, not gooners.

so when i do technical analysis of cars all roads lead to Porsche because they are the only ones who actually build cars right. but when i look at the financial side of this equation - it doesn’t add up - it is grossly overpriced. it costs about 50% more than BMW of similar performance and it has always been this way and always will be this way.

i remember many years ago watching 5th gear compare Porsche Cayman to BMW 135i with the cheaper BMW beating the Cayman and 5th gear saying “Porsche has got some explaining to do” … well NOT REALLY. the entire point of Porsche is to be overpriced. when you buy a Porsche you’re saying MONEY AIN’T SHIT TO ME and if it stopped being overpriced nobody would want it except Autists like me who are less than 1% of customers.

Porsche themselves said that people buy the BRAND more than anything else. Porsche overprices their cars to protect their brand. They would never survive by just making great cars because then only the top 1% IQ like me who can appreciate proper engineering would buy them.

and i want to be 100% clear - the only properly designed cars in Porsche lineup are Panamera, Taycan and possibly the upcoming 718 EV. the 911 is NOT properly designed, and neither is current 718 and of course the SUVs are trash altogether ( ALL SUVs not just Porsches ).

there are some very specific reasons for all those cars to exist but none of them are about making the car properly. Only Panamera and Taycan are really from-the-ground-up clean-sheet modern designs. 911 is a homage to a design that is literally 100 years old. 718 is just designed to be worse than 911 while also reusing some 911 parts. and the Crossovers are altogether a retarded trend that is about selling garbage to idiots.

i noticed a while back the Germans are really focused on ruining their products on purpose. i suppose it comes with the territory - the better a company is - the more they focus on making their products WORSE rather than better, but not many can understand this.

3

when i look at BMW 5 series versus Porsche Panamera the Panamera is clearly better in almost every way … except price and fuel economy.

and those two aren’t just bad - they are COMICALLY bad.

Panamera has same fuel economy as Range Rover ! ! ! I couldn’t believe it so i kept checking everywhere i could and yes it is really true. An aerodynamic bullet shaped car has same fuel economy as an SUV that looks like a U-Haul truck.

I kept trying to find some logical explanation for this and couldn’t … until now … and the answer is THEY WANT IT TO BE THIS BAD. if you care about Fuel Economy you shouldn’t be looking at Porsche - is their perspective.

same with the price. the reason Panamera is $50,000 more than BMW 5 series is simply because if you care about the price they don’t want you driving their car.

the problem with BMW is of course they notoriously self-destruct, just like Audi. and again, it isn’t because it’s hard to make a car that lasts - but because that simply isn’t what those brands stand for. BMW and Audi are disposable - everybody knows that and just leases them.

Porsche is not meant for leasing and is built to last … but then you get slammed with a $40,000 bill to replace the hybrid battery.

overall though, between Porsche Panamera and BMW 5 Series i think you will probably get better overall value with BMW … even with the comical, almost Tesla-level build quality ( aluminum bolts and plastic parts in the engine ) … and the only reason for this is because Porsche is DELIBERATELY making Panamera a bad value to protect brand prestige …

interestingly almost all Panamera drivers i see are women … and they all seem very proud of their car … while driving it slower than if it was a prius. they are just proud of how EXPENSIVE the car is because they didn’t go through 10 years of training as doctors to just drive a Toyota at below speed limit speeds … they are driving a Six-Figure Porsche … at below speed limit speeds.

BMW is kind of a different proposition - it has no reputation for quality or luxury or even prestige - it has reputation for mentally ill douchebag drivers that run over pedestrians at 100 mph. Which frankly is me.

4

essentially BMW offers value because it is INTENDED to offer value.

BMW, like Tesla, prides itself on selling high volumes of disposable vehicles.

Porsche - the opposite - prides itself on being a “small company” even though it’s literally the cornerstone brand of world’s biggest Automaker …

with Porsche you get a product that holds value but is so overpriced to begin with that even with the slower depreciation it’s still a crap deal especially when you consider the repair costs ( even if it needs a lot fewer repairs than BMW ) …

that said a brand new BMW versus a Certified Pre-Owned Porsche is actually a very close comparison in terms of both value and dependability … with a CPO Porsche getting the edge for style, prestige and better seating position while BMW scoring points for better tech.

the real ace up BMW sleeve is the I-Drive controller. i fucking CANT STAND touch screens in cars. of course Porsche could just use the MMI controller from Audi but then idiots would complain that it’s not a real Porsche now … just like how some ultra-dumb Porsche Fuckboys complain the engine is not air cooled anymore …

so really while Porsches sell on the strength of the brand also the Brand is what fucks them over too … because it is the Brand that demands they be overpriced and also that tech should have a retro feel to it … unlike in an Audi …

BMW, Audi and even Mercedes don’t have their head as far up the ass as Porsche does. But that’s how it goes - if you want your brand to have prestige - you must have your head up your ass.

5

the 5 series PHEV Wagon is probably the best balance of performance and practicality after Panamera Hybrid … and maybe even ahead of Panamera Hybrid due to better fuel economy ( courtesy of Valvetronic )

but unfortunately they will probably only bring the M5 Wagon to USA

because in America, practicality is a sin - so they can only bring the most impractical version of the most practical car to US …

this is also why Porsche is able to sell Panamera, which is a wagon, in US … because being a Porsche it is already impractical …

do you see how it works ?

it’s the flaws of human nature manifesting themselves as a conspiracy to make sure we can’t have anything good …

6

i want 2 seats and decent trunk space ( for a bike or whatever ).

i don’t need off road capability of SUV or 8 seats of minivan.

what options do i have ?

outside of Wagon version of the Volvo which i already have every other option is in the six-figure range whether it is Panamera, Taycan Sport Turismo or upcoming BMW M5 Wagon.

and even the Volvo Wagon is overpriced by $20,000 versus the Sedan version just to maintain its exclusivity as explained above.

they don’t want people to have wagons.

MOTHERFUCKS !

7

and it’s not their fault !

it is the fault of idiot customers.

as the saying goes people get the government they deserve. it is also true of car market.

we get SUVs because that’s what retarded customers want.

they want SUVs because they think it is “based” and while wagons are “lame”

you dummies - SUVs aren’t based ! they are CRINGE !

8

in a sane world every car would have body style of Panamera but also in a sane world 13 year old girls would have all the men, instead we pretend they are children.

but that’s a story for another day, or rather another thread: