Why i don't use a split to train

i’m in my early to mid 40s and i been training in the gym and pool since 11 or 12 starting in Kiev, Ukraine, then in Brooklyn, NY then San Francisco Bay Area, then Long Island and currently in New Jersey …

although i have used a traditional split ( i think the one i used the most was Legs, Back, Chest / Shoulders, Arms ) in the past with good results i no longer use a split, here is why.

professional bodybuilders and regular gym rat fukbois use a split differently, but one thing they have in common is they both cheat.

every time a professional loses a competition they talk to the judges to ask whey they didn’t win and usually the culprit is one of two things

1 - they were too soft, not shredded enough, which is due to poor contest prep
2 - they had an obviously weak area such as back, which is not acceptable for a pro

upon receiving this feedback they will modify their split to include a second back day into the same week … for example i think Ronnie Coleman had a “back width” day and a “back thickness” day but the real purpose of this is simply to do extra back work.

regular gym rat ruckbois do something similar but opposite. namely they will make excuses to skip leg and back days and when they actually do show up for their leg or back day they they start doing curls because their logic is " i am already here in the gym, doing a few sets of curls won’t hurt "

the net result of this is they do curls 3 or 4 times a week, back every 2 weeks and legs once a month. this way their bicep looks good so they can kiss it like faggots and admire it in the mirror in the bathroom. of course they can’t see their back or legs in their bathroom mirror, let alone kiss them, so it doesn’t bother them.

what they fail to realize is 90% of the time when people ( both men and women ) are sizing you up they do so from the back, because they don’t want you to know they’re doing it. they can’t even see your biceps from that perspective. all they can see is your weak back and your poor posture.

the pros use a split because in contest shape every head of their muscles will be judged separately so they must be very detail oriented and since it’s their job they can afford to spend a lot of time working on those details. the only way to make so much time is by training for multiple hours every day but you only really need to hit lagging muscles about 2 - 3 times a week and other muscles once or twice a week, thus they use a split to reflect that.

but the gym rat fuck bois use a split for something entirely different - namely as an excuse to avoid training legs and back. they come up with excuses to train biceps and abs on every workout plus they also do bench press whenever their bros are with them. if they ever do legs at all it’s just leg press since that allows them to use the most plates even though they are literally seated in that exercise and you can never use leg power while seated in the real world, making the exercise 100% useless.

by not using a split i automatically guarantee symmetry because every day is a leg day ( or a rest day ). i make sure to get at least one good training session a week no matter what, two if i have time, and three if one of the other sessions was cut short by something. most days are rest days.

so does that mean is spend most of my time in the gym doing boring shit like leg curls or retarded shit like leg press ? not at all. i have no time for that since i finish ALL muscle groups in just over an hour.

how ? by doing Olympic Lifting. with one exercise i hit legs, back and shoulders. i do no other exercises for legs, but i do of course have extra exercises for back and shoulders. OL can also hit biceps pretty hard. I do bicep work mainly to keep my biceps strong so they don’t get injured on OL.

my current workout looks something like this:

20 min warmup using dumbbells and cables
30 min OL
20 min finishing exercises to get a nice pump, again, using dumbbells and cables
15 min swim warmup in therapy pool ( it has warm water that is ideal for just loosening the muscles )
20 min butterfly sprints in the competition spec ( cold, deep, long ) lap pool

including changing, showering, maybe taking a shit before i go in the shower the whole thing takes about 3 hours. the key to lasting 3 hours is drinking the right fluids. i bring four separate bottles with me - two Nalgene ( impact resistant translucent plastic ) bottles with spring water, one protein shake ( Klean Kanteen Wide Mouth stainless steel bottle ), and one Hydro Flask Vacuum Insulated Stainless Steel bottle with warm “tea” that has various herbal stuff and carbs to optimize how i feel.

make sure your protein and tea bottles have a wide mouth so you can use a brush to clean them out properly. simply rinsing them off is not enough. for just spring water i feel Nalegene is enough but i wouldn’t put anything other than water into a Nalgene bottle. the benefit of plastic Nalegene over Stainless Steel is it is lighter and doesn’t dent. the benefit of Stainless is the surface can be cleaned back go original condition with enough scrubbing and chemicals even if you had like mold growing there. if you use the bottles for something that can support mold and bacteria ( basically any drink other than just water ) stainless is a must IMO.

anyway, when we feel “exhausted” what we are actually feeling is usually:

1 - dehydration
2 - overheating
3 - running out of carbs

in other words our body had capacity for more work, but we didn’t manage it properly.

because the average gym rat fuckboi is too stupid to be able to manage these things they run out of steam in 1 hour and go home. but if you go to a gym with good air conditioning, wear clothes that are well ventilated, drink plenty of water and fill in any missing nutrients like carbs and protein you can last 3 hours no problem.

now overheating in itself can be a beneficial stimulus and some people prefer working out without AC for this reason … and i would say knock yourself out AS LONG AS you are able to complete your workout and not quit half way. otherwise switch to a gym with AC.

in other words heat and sweating ( whether from sauna or training itself ) may have benefits, but i refuse to believe those benefits outweigh those of training itself. and besides, even with ice cold AC you can always just train harder and still be hot and sweating like a pig.

for the most part all this “hardcore gym with no AC” is just a way for broke guys to argue that they are Alpha, not broke. too bad there is nobody to make that argument to except other broke guys. Because girls don’t go to such gyms. girls like luxury and successful men ( which they find in LifeTime Athletic ) not stench and broke retards ( which is what “hardcore” gyms offer ).

i have done 20 hour long workouts on Amphetamines but that was when i decided i was not willing to train in brooklyn and had to travel to Long Island to train which was 3 hours in traffic each way so i would take amphetamines and train the whole day and then just sleep for the next two days … i do NOT recommend doing that !

ultimately though, that period was the genesis of my current workout. except back then i had to use several gyms to complete one workout. one of those gyms i used just because it was 24/7 and allowed me to keep working out when others were closed …

today i’m very lucky to train in a gym that has both olympic lifting and swimming under the same roof, which is something all Life Time Athletic gyms have, but i am not at Lifetime anymore and very lucky to be able to continue to train this way.

i literally had to move out of NYC to escape the traffic that was forcing my Amphetamine workout on me. because i am now 15 minutes away from a gym that has everything i need i no longer have use for amphetamines as i can just train more frequently now that it doesn’t take me 3 hours to get to the gym.

still, more frequently is really just 2 or 3 times a week, because my training system doesn’t need more.

and even though my workout is only 3 hours long now, again, i don’t need more. the reason i went for 20 hours on amphetamines is because i had come back from a dislocated shoulder and was very overweight and basically used these long workouts to burn calories. i mean once you take those amphetamines it’s not like you are going to sleep so might as well workout. 20 hour workouts were a good fit for me then, but a 3 hour workout is a good fit now.

if you work out at home, which means you spend ZERO time getting to the gym, then you may as well use a split and train every day - why not ?

but if getting to the gym and back, changing etc. consumes time and money then you may as well get your time and money’s worth out of the workout by doing a full body workout every time.

currently between driving, changing, packing my gym bag and so on it takes me about an hour for every gym trip so i have to train for about 3 hours to make it worth it. in the amphetamine days it would take me several hours of driving, packing, changing etc ( i would use multiple sets of clothes, shower multiple times and also use multiple sets of shakes and also stop by a real diner and eat salmon and rice there all in one workout spanning several geographical areas ) so to make it worth it my workout had to be over 10 hours long …

regardless, once i switched to full body training there was no going back. it’s just more efficient.

i need to move out of my current residence and new location will have different gym and pool situation and i will again adopt my routine - but it again will be a full body workout of some kind. i just may have to split it across several facilities and hit those facilities on different days but within any given facility i will make use of everything that it offers all in one workout - no splits.

as Mark Sisson said splits are for people who literally have nothing else to do than workout which is the case for Professional Bodybuilders. it’s worth it for them because it allows them to optimize the shape of every single muscle to get just the right look the judges want, and the judges are VERY picky about those things.

but for those of us who don’t spend six figures a year on drugs any and all such effort would be 100% wasted as nobody would ever appreciate the shape of your quad sweep or chest-shoulder tie-in.

what we are after, is simply being strong and looking alpha - and a full body workout is perfectly adequate for that.

on other hand doing curls every day and legs once a month will only make you look like a faggot.

and doing 20 different leg isolation exercises like leg curls and butt blaster will only make you look like a homosexual.

if Olympic Lifting is too advanced for you - a combination of deadlifts and squats hit pretty much the same muscles ( except less arms and shoulders ). if you deadlift and squat on every single workout that is pretty much all the leg training you need.

Yes it is better if you also do unilateral exercises like Lunges and so on but at that point your workout will be getting so long you will need a split and then you will just come up with an excuse to skip leg day.

finally i would also strongly recommend running, not to lose weight, but to strengthen your feet.

and a punching bag to strengthen your wrists.

whether you want to run outdoors or get a punching bag for home or whatever is up to you.

to summarize - splits are good for pro bodybuilders, but no other athletes except bodybuilders use splits and unless you’re a pro bodybuilder you probably shouldn’t either, unless you literally have noting to do with your time or you have a home gym.

i actually do have a home gym but i only use it to rehab from injuries. i prefer a real gym because it allows for a more well-rounded training and also because it allows girls to admire me. i noticed i am much stronger in the real gym than at home on same exact exercises simply because the girls are watching.

on the flip side i never got injured at home but had many injuries in the gym - almost all of them while showing off in front of hot girls. needless to say it’s a delicate balance but if i couldn’t show off i would lose motivation and quit. when i do rehab at home it’s just so i can get back to showing off in the gym.

there is actually also a technical reason as well.

namely over the years i have tried to think of pros and cons of various splits such as Push-Pull split or Upper-Lower split and reality is there is simply no way to do a clean split.

the best exercises ( such as deadlifts ) tend to hit both upper and lower body for example, so Upper-Lower split can’t be made clean.

and if we try Push-Pull and say that squat is push and deadlift is pull … well glutes are used on both equally. or vice versa for example chest and back are used equally on dips. so you can’t do a clean split Push-Pull either.

or for example should deadlifts be done on leg days or back days ? the primary movers on deadlifts are erectors, glutes and hamstrings - a perfectly even split between back and legs. the other muscles involved are also fairly evenly split between back and legs.

reality is splits always come with a compromise. pro bodybuilders accept these compromises because if they need to train 20 hours a week while hitting every muscle twice a week their only other option would be 2 X 10 hour workouts but that is sketchy.

also the overlap is actually beneficial because what it means is that while theoretically you’re training each muscle once or twice a week in reality you’re hitting it multiple times a week, just not directly. and sciences says that the optimum number of times to hit a muscle is more than twice a week while most muscles are designed only once a week on a split, so the overlap works in your favor.

so really the split is just a way for stupid people like bodybuilders to stay accountable that they did all the work and their coach after consulting with the judges can add an extra back day or whatever as needed.

an ideal way to train would actually be a full body workout every day but with with some advanced measures taken to avoid over-training. i have just started a thread to go in detail on how exactly that would work:

this would be not very different from what real splits already look like once dialed in properly - so for example many pros throw in chin ups between sets of other muscles because they understand more back work is better. and this could potentially be in addition to already having two back days.

so really a split is just a starting point for accountability from where a pro would have their coach adjust it until they were getting proper results and a fuckboi will “adjust” it until all he’s doing is biceps and abs.

whereas my “adjustment” is where i simply skip most days as rest days ( mainly because i sleep during the day and awake at night ) and if i’m lucky to be awake during the day twice in a week then my system allows me to take full advantage of that.

you may be thinking - Dissident - why don’t you just join a 24/7 gym ?

the answer is no 24/7 gym also offers a pool that is open 24/7 because lifeguards need to sleep. i have trained at gyms like 24 Hour Fitness that are 24/7 and have a pool - but the pool is not 24/7 …

and of course 24 Hour Fitness went bankrupt during Covid … though they may have reopened …

the other issue is car odometer mileage. if some gym had a 24/7 pool but was 20 miles away from me i would have to put on 15,000 miles a year on the odometer for just working out, which is not acceptable and another reason why i used to take amphetamines and do 10+ hour workouts. because i would put close to 100 miles on the odometer for a workout i had to make do with fewer workouts and make the most out of each one.

the main issue with the system i describe in the linked thread is that it requires thinking which is why the pros can’t use this system. they must be given ( by their coach ) an approach where they just go balls to the walls. you can’t tell somebody with a 80 IQ to be smart about things.

coaches of pro bodybuilders make BIG money by the way, because without them all the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of drugs the pros take will just kill them without notching them the wins. the job of the coach is to understand their athlete and then give them instructions that are simple to follow but will steer them in the right direction.

i tried talking to young guys in the gym about this kind of advanced stuff and they just get scared. you can’t tell normies things like this. you have to speak to them in a language they can understand which is splits, sets, reps, failure etc. i don’t use ANY of those concepts myself because i am above them, but that is also why i can’t explain what i do and why to anybody.

a great coach, and a great leader in general, understands things that regular people can’t and doesn’t try to explain what he understands. instead he motivates people to do what ultimately needs to be done.

unfortunately for you i am not a leader. i am a philosopher. i explain things as they are, whether you have a snowball’s chance in h3ll of understanding them or not.

The clean and press (not jerk) is probably the most complete exercise you can do to hit as many muscles as possible. I am unable to do it properly because my huge biceps don’t allow me to get into a proper front rack position. In any case, I just follow a five day bro split. Maybe it’s not ideal, but I enjoy focusing on a different muscle group every time I go to the gym.

that was a point i meant to make but forgot.

i used to subscribe to Muscular Development magazine where Ronnie Coleman was answering a question from a fan and was supposed to critique his split or training in general. but Ronnie refused to criticize it saying you mentioned you were getting great results in which case you should just continue doing it.

in other words beginners think there is some magical correct way to train but the top pros know they have no idea what they are doing. if it seems to work they will keep doing it. if they embarrass themselves on stage they fire their coach and get a new one.

personally i would go insane if i had to spend an entire workout on arms. to me that would be like being forced to pedal a bicycle from NY to LA while owning five private jets. i can always throw in curls between other exercises. in fact i should do a separate thread on this !

The way I look at arm day is that it’s an extra bodybuilding-focused training session on top of a good four-day strength split that a powerlifter for example might do. Here is how a powerlifter might train:

Monday: squats (legs)
Tuesday: bench press (chest)
Wednesday: off
Thursday: overhead press (shoulders)
Friday: deadlift (back)
Saturday: off
Sunday: off

Throw in more exercises to round out each day’s training session to completely hit the bodypart being trained that day, and throw in a dedicated arm day on one of the rest days, and you have yourself a bodybuilding split that hits everything.

Realistically you are training each muscle more like two times a week with the overlap in exercises, but there is nothing wrong with that.

I am not focused on training with specialization in bodybuilding or powerlifting or strongman, since I don’t compete in any of these. I do however think one should train to be strong at everything, and there is no reason to only do gay stretch and squeeze hypertrophy-focused bodybuilding exercises because all he cares about is getting big. Do your squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead presses, pullups, rows, etc. and get strong at everything and you will have a good physique and strength that will carry over to daily life as much as training in the gym can do that. Better yet, if your gym has strongman equipment like tires, yokes, sandbags, sleds, farmers walk stuff, then do those exercises as well. Going to the gym just to develop the vanity muscles for bodybuilding, especially when you aren’t even a real bodybuilder, is really gay and a misguided approach to training.

My amateur opinion is that regardless of your goals, all training should be more or less the same and you should train to make your whole body bigger and stronger. Bodybuilders should train more like powerlifters and strongmen, and powerlifters and strongmen should train more like bodybuilders.

Kanye - the most hit and miss poster in the history of the universe

comes within an inch of getting it and then misses by a mile

well that’s why we love him ! LOL

here is what you have to understand - powerlifting has NOTHING to do with “strength”

the very word “strength” is a completely made up term that Powerlifters use to rationalize their masturbation.

this dude:

was a strongman superstar, transitioned to MMA and had to drop like 50 lbs of muscle just to stay competitive because all the muscle was just making him gas faster …

and that’s strongman - which is 10 times closer to real world strength than powerlifting.

too bad bench press is completely useless unless you’re a bird and can use pecs to fly.

i remember why i did it. we all had to do push ups in school in Kiev so i stared benching when i was 11 or 12 to get better at push ups. then it became a competition with other guys in the gym. already at about 300 lbs bench press @ age 20 i knew it was a retarded exercise but wanted to find out how much more was left in the tank. after hitting 400 lbs @ age 23 i quit benching.

i do some light chest work with dumbbells and cable crossovers, but haven’t touched the bar in decades. it’s just a dumb exercise.

there was also a period of time when i completely quit doing curls for years … but i later started doing them again.

there was also a period of time when i had quit swimming completely … but also returned to that later.

there are also some exercises that i quit because i was no longer able to do them either due to injuries or some other factors but benching was not one of those. i stopped benching because i quit steroids so i knew there would never be another bench PR and i was only in it for PRs. i knew the exercise itself is useless.

bench press is useless and if you do all of those things you won’t even be close to being strong at everything. after training like you described for 5 years straight you will not be able to run barefoot or hit a punching bag or move furniture or shovel snow or wrestle or really do anything at all except those things which you specifically trained.

there are just way too many gaps in the training you described and it doesn’t matter how “strong” you are elsewhere - those gaps will be your undoing.

this is called “general preparedness” which is like a foundation of fitness from which you can specialize further when the time comes.

where we differ is that you think Powerlifting or Strongman is anywhere close to being such a foundation when actually it is Military Training that is closest to it …

both CrossFit and MovNat were essentially adopted from Military Training but CrossFit was designed to be used in a “Box” ( their word for gym ) whereas MovNat was designed for outdoor retreats.

Your goal should be to likewise reverse Engineer military training for whatever training facilities ( indoor or outdoor ) are available in your area.

also as Charles Poliquin ( RIP ) used to say 80% of training should be accessory work, and only 20% the exercise on which you actually compete. this gives you quite a lot of flexibility in how you can train.

to summarize:

forget bench press.
forget powerlifting.
strongman is better, but not holy grail.
crossfit is similar to strongman but focused on group training and bodyweight exercises.

the problem with CrossFit is that military training is designed to take young, fit men and make half of them drop out. it is very hard for teenage boys to get injured and very easy for middle-aged men. and for middle aged women it is altogether unrealistic to even hope to do something like muscle ups.

the idiots behind CrossFit just put everybody in one class ( young men and middle aged women ) and be like “now climb this rope” …

the reason they do this is $$$ money. one high-end treadmill is $15,000 and it requires constant maintenance. so CrossFit said - fuck that, we will just make them do box jumps - which would maybe work for 18 year old boys, but is not a good idea when it comes to 50 year old women.

so CrossFit deservedly has a reputation for high injury rates, and bodybuilding deservedly has a reputation for building muscles that are mostly cosmetic, but here is the thing - PowerLifting is literally WORSE than both of them ! the problem is that PowerLifters are too stupid to understand how stupid PowerLifting is.

PowerLifting is not half as functional as CrossFit and not half as aesthetic as BodyBuilding.

so does that mean the optimum training is a mix of CrossFit and BodyBuilding ? NO ! ! !

that’s a logical fallacy

the average of two things doesn’t have to be optimum. both of those things may be on the same side of actual optimum. our entire two-party system in America is based on this fallacy - the idea that the average of left and right is “center” - no actually the average of Republicans and Democrats is Klaus Schwab, Benjamin Netanyahu and Bill Gates.

reality is all these “sports” like Bodybuilding, Powerlifting, Strongman are more the same than they are the opposite …

remember there is also Running, Swimming, Cycling, Rowing, Wrestling, Boxing, Gymnastics …

you can’t take the average of 2 or 3 sports that are almost the same and say “now i am well rounded”

the idiots who do Triathlon are guilty of same mistake - they be like " I run, Cycle and Swim therefore i am well rounded " - yeah Nigger, you’re doing 3 kinds of cardio you’re not rounded at all.

Military training is the only kind of training that is well rounded but it is difficult to adopt to people who aren’t teenagers that literally signed up to suffer.

and commercial systems like CrossFit will always put profits first.

the good news is if you live in a large metro area especially one with great weather like California you can work out a fairly comprehensive solution by combining different kinds of training, but rather than Bench Press being a whole day in a week it should be maybe 2 or 3 percent of your training.

that’s actually one of my secrets - how i am able to be so brilliant.

you have to always look for positions that are as far from yours as possible.

not one position that is “opposite” of yours but ALL positions that are as distant from yours as possible in a multi-dimensional idea space.

the low-IQ person thinks in one dimension - left and right ( politically ). people slightly more intelligent can have 2 dimensional political compass.

The Political Compass

but the number of possible dimensions is limited only by your IQ.

furthermore the Low-IQ person even in his single-dimensional space wants to find only those people who are closest to him. by contrast i want to find people who are not only furthest from me, but furthest from me in dimensions i am not even aware of !

for example i have noticed everybody in the dissident right is Anti-Pedophile, so i started promoting Pedophilia as a sort of a Shit-Test to see who can think for themselves and who can only bleat slogans.

it is only after you have mapped out the widest possible multi-dimensional space of ideas ( by bumping into the walls like a roomba robot ) then you can start asking questions like - what is the center of that space ?

and even then you shouldn’t. there is no center of space. there is only center of your ignorance.

whenever i hear anybody use the term “opposite” in politics i know i am dealing with a retard.

the word implies a one-dimensional idea space, and therefore a mind capable of “thinking” only in such a space.

whenever you hear people arguing whether Hitler was “left wing” or “right wing” it is safe to block both sides of that debate.

this applies not just to politics but everything.

i arguably first was exposed to retard clusters of ideas when it comes to diets. every diet is a cult. so is every political movement.

but also so is basically everything else.

whenever you see two people agreeing on anything you see people who have forfeited the privilege to use their brain to think for themselves.

for example @Alkiphron almost always agrees with me because he is a gentleman. you @kanyewest are the opposite - you always disagree, which is of course more aggravating. what i would really like is for people to disagree with me and engage in a debate and lose. but this is almost impossible in practice because smart people agree with me and stupid people can’t change their mind. still, that remains the goal.

i want people to question me and also to question themselves and let the best ideas and arguments win. 90% of the time of course it will be my ideas and arguments, but i also don’t want to win 100% of the time, because i know for a fact that i am not infallible and if i am genuinely wrong i want my mistake to be caught, otherwise why am i even sharing my thoughts if i can’t improve their quality by doing so.

my dream user for this site is somebody who is smart, who only cares about the truth, and has different opinions from me but is as flexible in his opinions as i am in mine.

i am so fucking flexible in my opinions i couldn’t even tell you what my opinions even are at this point.

everything i used to believe has turned out to be a fraud.

What I am saying is that amateur lifters should make the most use of the equipment available to them at the gym. I am not saying that training at a gym will prepare you to take on any athletic task. But if you do go to a gym to train to get big and strong, don’t just focus on the Big 3 because you think you are a powerlifter, and don’t just do gay stretch and squeeze bullshit with light weights because you think you are a bodybuilder. Make use of the equipment available to you and you will optimize your time at the gym, getting a good physique assuming your diet is on point, and getting as strong as you’re going to get.

The bench press is a fine exercise. It’s the most common test of upper body strength and is a powerlifting lift, so there is no good reason not to do it if you lift weights. Just make sure you are doing dumbbell work and overhead pressing as well.

that is true. if you want to be a firefighter for example you have to bench press a certain percentage of your bodyweight.

i don’t aspire to be a firefighter though :slight_smile:

my response here: