Porsche 911 Hybrid Revealed - My Analysis

Technology Electrified Vehicles
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the hybrid will be a “GTS” spec, start at around $160,000 and be a REAR WHEEL DRIVE with about 540 hp.

EDIT: see replies below, there will be AWD variants.

i assumed Porsche would take the same direction as Acura NSX and Corvette E-Ray ( that both have an electric front axle ) but instead 911 GTS Hybrid is rear wheel drive ONLY with no power to the front wheels.

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In fact the electric motor only adds 40 KW ( about 53 hp ) versus about 150 hp in current gen Volvo S60 Hybrid or Corvette E-Ray or for that matter about 180 HP in current gen Panamera Hybrid and almost 200 hp in BMW 550e.

so how does Porsche justify the $160,000 starting price ? surely that extra 50 hp can’t be worth extra $40,000 ?

well, the real ace up the Hybrid’s sleeve is actually the electric turbocharger …

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additionally, the GTS has larger engine than the base 911 …

and yes there is now only one Turbo on the GTS instead of two …

this is basically Formula 1 approach that also has a single electric turbo feeding a 6 cylinder engine … and of course Mercedes AMG C63 E-Performance also has an electric turbo but will probably never come to America because US customers don’t want a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder AMG “63”

Porsche avoided the mistake AMG made and did NOT downsize the engine. in fact they made it bigger. the 3.6 liter in GTS is almost double the piston area versus the 2.0 liter in AMG C63 E-Performance that everybody hates.

also unlike the Corvette E-Ray which is forced to turn off the AC whenever engine stops, Porsche, like a proper hybrid should, has electrically driven AC compressor which means AC always runs whether the engine runs or not.

basically Porsche has opted for a solution that keeps weight low. the 400V hybrid battery is there not so much to drive the wheels as to drive the turbo. this gives Porsche better power to weight ratio. that is good.

the BAD is that the front wheels aren’t connected to anything … though this may be rectified with Mechanical AWD with future models …

EDIT: there ARE variants with AWD ( mechanical )

to summarize - electrical turbo should improve power delivery and efficiency and is certainly welcome.

the hybrid motor is rather tame and while the extra 110 lb-ft of torque from idle RPM that it offers will be noticeable the extra 53 hp probably won’t be on their own, though combined with larger 3.6 liter engine ( versus 3.0 base ) it WILL be a noticeable power bump … that said more low end torque and better economy is again welcome especially since ( unlike in Corvette E-Ray ) you don’t have to give up the Air Conditioning to cycle the engine off.

essentially Porsche has done what they always do - improve 911 just enough to keep this 100 year old design relevant - but it is NOT any kind of quantum leap forward that they COULD HAVE done …

EDIT: it is just one model, the GTS, which is supposed to have a certain performance level and not more - future models will likely be hybrids as well, but more powerful ones

i was almost certain they would put a big battery into transmission tunnel and add an electric front axle - but they didn’t. why ? because then it would not be a 911 anymore and also it would be faster than Lambos and they can’t have either of those things happening.

EDIT: actually they can allow 911 to be faster than Lambo so long as it and the lambos have very different character and thus don’t compete with each other. see my article on that at the link below:

Porsche was very clear - they 911 is not about being a great car - it’s about being a 911. The are sticking with the Nose-Light, Tail-Heavy RWD that people expect from a 911 … they had the opportunity to fix this and they said nah, we good.

as much as i love hybrids i do NOT recommend this new 911 GTS hybrid. it is hugely complex and expensive yet the improvement is only incremental.

EDIT: i changed my mind. you get exactly what you pay for with this car. not more or less. as always with Porsche.

the 911 is now in a situation where the complexity is increasing exponentially in order to keep a 100 year old design competitive. it is not so much a car as part nostalgia fetish and part engineering exercise where by buying it you’re subsidizing R&D for things like the electric turbo that will later find good use in some other car …

it reminds me of a spoof article by “Sniff Petrol” about Porsche announcing a 3-wheel drive 911 model where Porsche says their market research showed 4 wheel drive would be too fast for the intended market segment but 2 wheel drive too slow so they did a 3 wheel drive … that is unironically what this new 911 GTS Hybrid is doing

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Im very curious what they will do for Turbo S … as for pricing its hard to justify any of it until they make them as fast as Tesla S Plaids or close to it… its embarrassing to pay 200K for GTS and get laughed at by Model 3 passing you by … My model S plaid is fast but I have to admit I miss the v8 sound of a Merc for example. New Merc GT is nice at but the plugin hybrid is an idiotic system imo… I dont want to fill it up w gas and also then have to charge it on top of it.

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the absolute most performance that can potentially be squeezed out of 911 platform is if they use two electric turbos on the flat six and two electric motors on the front axle … so about 800 hp on the rear and 200 on the front and 1,000 hp total … this at about 500 lbs lighter than Plaid …

however Porsche aren’t a bunch of tuners who are trying to get the most performance possible - they are a serious company that thinks big-picture, that is they think about where the car fits in VolksWagen group line-up, how it stacks up against competition from AMG etc. and also what is the path forward - how could it be upgraded for the NEXT iteration of the model … ( or maybe they will decide this is the last 911 )

so really you have to ask - what is the natural competition for the 911 ? i do not think it is Plaid. it is probably AMG GT:

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remember AMG GT uses 4.0 liter Turbo and top 911 Turbo engines are 3.8 liter which is pretty much the same. yes AMG GT is 8 cylinder and 911 is 6 but it is not cylinder count or even displacement that matters but rather PISTON SURFACE AREA, which is roughly equal for the AMG V8 and Porsche Flat 6 ( actually Porsche 6 has slightly larger Piston Area than AMG 8 )

AMG was first with electric turbo technology initially in Formula 1, then in C63 E-Performance, but now Porsche has it too. And of course between Panamera Hybrid and Taycan Porsche has similar tech to what AMG uses in their PHEVs to supplement gas power with electric power.

the Turbo S will probably do enough to stay competitive with AMG GT, and not more. with wider tires and benefit of AWD the 911 might not need to match AMG GT for horsepower in order to beat it on performance, so maybe they will do like 700 hp.

will it have a plug ? hard to say. the reason European cars have plugs is they get to write off taxes on the plugs in Europe. the AMG PHEVs at about 6KWH battery are really in between a regular hybrid like 911 GTS ( which has 1.6 KHW ) and a real PHEV like Panamera ( which has 25 KHW battery ). so the AMG isn’t going for fuel economy as much as just tax write offs, that said if you live in a high rise you would be better off with a regular hybrid than PHEV because a regular hybrid may use slightly different battery chemistry that can sacrifice range for other qualities you can actually benefit from.

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i am probably too harsh on the 911. i am just annoyed that a company capable of innovating is instead choosing to stick to a legacy design for the sake of heritage. i just want 911 to die already so they can move on to something better, but it seems they have enough tricks up their sleeve to keep 911 going for at least one more generation.

the problem is that while it would be relatively straightforward to put 700 hp into a 911 using method i described above … it would at that point be twice as complex as Lambos that cost more … begging the question - WHY ?

and the answer is:

1 - some people just want a 911
2 - tech developed can later be used elsewhere
3 - brand prestige that comes with fancy tech whether it is useful or not

i think 50/50 chance we will see a 700 hp Turbo S Hybrid with 50/50 chance of it having a plug, and i think overall performance expectations should be based on AMG GT roadster rather than plaid, because it is the more natural competition, though with AWD it should be quicker off the line than AMG.

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CORRECTION:

the 2025 911 Carrera GTS is also available as a rear and all-wheel drive model (911 Carrera GTS and 911 Carrera 4 GTS) in Coupe or Cabriolet form, and as a Targa variant (exclusively available with all-wheel drive) … Deliveries of the new 2025 911 Carrera models to U.S. Porsche Centers are expected to start in the fall, and at the end of 2024 for the 911 Carrera GTS models.

  • 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera: $120,100
  • 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet: $133,400
    *** 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS: $164,900**
    *** 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS Cabriolet: $178,200**
    *** 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS: $172,700**
    *** 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet: $186,000**
    *** 2025 Porsche 911 Targa 4 GTS: $186,000**
  • 2025 Porsche 911 Turbo: $197,200
  • 2025 Porsche 911 Turbo Cabriolet: $210,000
  • 2025 Porsche 911 Turbo S: $230,400
  • 2025 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet: $243,200
  • 2025 Porsche 911 GT3 RS: $241,300

yes i should have read the press release to the end. there WILL be an AWD variant ( or rather three variants / roof types ) …

the AWD makes this a complete car, and other improvements like fully digital cockpit are welcome additions as well.

also with 97 mm cylinder bore this engine has 95% of the total piston area of the V8 in Panamera Turbo ( which has 86 mm bore ) this is VERY healthy …

remember the Panamera is heavier and does NOT ( yet ) have electric turbo so you could argue the engine in this GTS is BETTER than the V8 in Panamera Turbo …

as for the Hybrid System difference between 911 GTS and Panamera E-Hybrid it is clear that Panamera opted for electric range and power while 911 GTS opted for light weight, which is appropriate in both cases since these cars have different missions …

also NOTEWORTHY the new GTS is not called GTS Hybrid but simply called GTS - this is different from Panamera nomenclature ( which had separate regular and E-Hybrid models in most performance levels ) this basically means hybrids will eventually replace regular models rather than exist alongside them …

overall i must admit i mis-understood 911. i felt it was over-priced but since i realized the larger-bore 911 engines are more directly comparable to V8 Panamera engine than V6 Panamera engine now the prices make perfect sense …

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I actually would get Merc GT w 800-1000hp non plugin hybrid over any 911 Turbo S personally simply because I like the v8 sound and I hate how 911s sound, even if merc’s handling would not be on par w 911 - but for city / hwy driving does it really matter its not like Ill be squeezing it out. Having to go to charging stations though is super annoying.

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Sounds a lot better less high pitched hopefully new Turbo S might have deeper notes this time around as well.
https://www.motor1.com/news/721460/992-porsche-911-gt2-rs-test-mule-nurburgring/

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watched the video - sounds OK.

don’t forget Porsche offers a Sport Exhaust option that has a valve in exhaust that can be opened with a push of a button for a louder sound. you would almost certainly want to get that.

and to take it further you can install Akrapovic exhaust :

( tuned Carrera S, this video shows the effect of exhaust valve opening and closing )

( Turbo S )

Akrapovic makes exhausts for real race bikes in Moto GP and also most superbikes offer it as an upgrade option. Akrapovic exhaust is so prized in fact i wouldn’t be surprised if yours gets stolen LOL.

OK i don’t actually know how hard or easy it is to steal exhaust from a 911 but if i had Akrapovic on a motorcycle i would definitely be expecting somebody to try to take it off because it is made out of things like titanium and carbon fiber and of course even regular exhaust system have platinum in the catalytic converter, and those do get stolen from SUVs where thieves are able to crawl under a car …

there was a story where a catalytic converter thief got ran over when the owner got in a car and drove away not realizing there was somebody under his car LOL

anyway, i would ask a Porsche dealer what stock options there are to get better sound and then find a shop that installs aftermarket exhausts on 911s and ask what aftermarket options there are ( Akrapovic probably has multiple options, maybe for compatibility with sport exhaust valve etc. ), then try to hear them in action and search the forums for cons / pros …

but ultimately a 911 will sound like a 911. it won’t sound like an AMG V8 because it isn’t. and IMO you shouldn’t try to make a 911 sound like an AMG V8. the 911 is an iconic car with a unique sound and any aftermarket exhaust should accentuate that uniqueness.

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i think an Akrapovic exhaust should get you close to the sound of the GT2 RS but there are a few reasons why it will sound different:

1 - sound comes not only from exhaust but also intake side of engine, which is likely different on the RS and Turbo S

2 - different engine, turbos, different chip tuning, maybe different exhaust manifolds etc …

so things like crackles and pops are probably more due to chip tuning than exhaust … of course you could probably chip tune a Turbo S to produce all sort of weird pops and shoot flames etc. but you also probably do not want to do that …

all that chip tuning stuff etc. could potentially mess something up … whereas i think ( but you would have to research that ) just putting on Akrapovic exhaust your only risk would be having it stolen … i don’t think it could damage the car …

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yeh Im not too interested in crackling and pops that has been a recent trend where its just too much of them. Just more deeper v8 note is what I personally prefer and you are right 911 has its own note and its going to stay that way plus/minus.

Incidentally porsche does know how to make an amazing sound, Cayenne Turbo GT sounds fantastic :wink:

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Jason Fenske with a more detailed analysis than mine

TLDR - the main benefit of the new setup is better response ( less lag ) and lower emissions.

i mean it makes sense. garage tuners worry about power - serious car companies worry about more important things.

Jason’s video doesn’t really change my perspective on this car overall, but he does dig quite a bit deeper than i did.

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what Porsche should have done is put two such turbos on a Cayman GTS 4.0, put electric motors in the front and give the Cayman wider tires that 911 has … of course that will never happen because that car would be faster than 95% of Lambos and why would VW let Cayman beat Lambos ?

by the way i finally figured out how Porsche keeps Cayman slower than 911 despite Cayman being the superior platform. first i thought they just under-power the Cayman, then i realized they also don’t let Cayman use fancy tech like Rear Axle steering - but the MOST IMPORTANT way in which Porsche cripples Cayman to keep it below 911 is NARROW TIRES.

if you put everything 911 has ( big turbo engine, big tires, rear axle steering etc. ) into Cayman the Cayman would be faster. instead Porsche makes up laughable excuses for why the Cayman isn’t getting any of those things. we all know the real reason.

in a way it makes sense though - because VW group already has Lambos if you want high-power mid-engine car. both 911 and Cayman are unique cars. 911 because it is rear engine and cayman because it is cheap and practical ( cargo space ) for a mid-engine car. if VW simply wanted to make the best car they would have to consolidate Lambo, Audi R8, 911 and Cayman into one optimal model but then they would have 1/4 the profits. instead they let every buyer think he outsmarted all the other ones who made a “wrong” choice.

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disturbing news friends.

apparently this “hybrid” can’t drive with the engine off. like at all.

from:

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notice it says “no purely electric driving”

apparently there is no mechanical disconnect between Engine and Motor which means electric motor can only spin if the engine is also spinning.

this makes it essentially a Mild Hybrid, rather than a full hybrid. a mild hybrid is basically just a start stop system that doesn’t shudder while starting or turn off your AC when stopping, and it also provides some torque fill at the low end.

Mild Hybrid is now more or less standard tech on new German cars like BMW to the point where it isn’t referred to as hybrids at all to avoid confusion with plug-in hybrids in the same line up.

the reason Porsche calls it a “T-Hybrid” rather than mild hybrid is because Mild Hybrids usually run on 48V batteries while the 911 runs on 400V battery like full hybrids. but that only makes it a world’s best Mild Hybrid - it is still a mild hybrid.

it makes sense though as 911 owners don’t care about fuel economy ( but i do ).

911 owners expressed concern that they will not hear engine note with a Hybrid well you won’t have to worry about this too much with a mild hybrid system as the engine will never shut off unless you’re stopped. clearly Porsche knows their customer.

the 911 is all about legacy. it only implements new tech if it doesn’t clash with what historically makes something a 911. this is perhaps why Panamera for example first went full Hybrid, then Plug-In hybrid and now a decade later 911 goes … MILD hybrid, which is a step below full Hybrid.

Porsche says of course this is to save weight - but they probably just did it to have an excuse to keep the engine running so you can listen to the exhaust note.

as far as i’m concerned the most advanced hybrid system right now is Mercedes P3 Hybrid which is found in AMG 63 E-Performance cars. those are nominally Plug-in but with only 7 to 8 miles of EV range you won’t lose out on much by never plugging them in.

what is disturbing about AMG 63 E-Performance hybrids though is the battery is NOT SERVICEABLE. you can’t take it apart ! because it is literally filled with special cooling liquid that is electrically non-conductive and AMG is afraid that if you replace that cooling liquid with something conductive bad things will happen so they simply made it not serviceable.

a new battery is about 2X the price of remanufactured battery so with no remanufactured option your battery replacement on those AMGs will be $$$

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so 911 and AMG GT are both Hybrid now but very different ones.

the 911 is a very basic hybrid, though it has an electric turbo

AMG GT E-Performance is a P3 hybrid, which is the most advanced type but still uses a V8 with regular turbos

P3 means the electric motor is in the back, like in my Volvo. this is better for both efficiency and weight distribution but is more expensive than having an electric motor in the front. it’s more expensive because P3 hybrids still also have a small electric motor in the front as well so the AMG GT E-Performance actually has electric motors in both the back and the front of the car - as does my Volvo.

i will do a separate write up on P3 hybrids.

in the mean time between the new AMG-GT E-Performance and the new 911 Hybrid - it’s a very close race IMO. both have about the same power to weight ratio and AWD and probably similar fuel economy because even though 911 is not a full hybrid it is much lighter than E-Performance.

between the two the 911 should feel more traditional while the E-Performance with the P3 system will feel more like my Volvo than a normal car. that is you will feel the rear electric motor and front engine working independently of each other and some people really fucking hate this.

you will not get that sensation with 911 because the motor and engine in the 911 hybrid are physically locked together and always spin together.

and again, that’s because 911 is about tradition - it must feel like a 911. whereas E-Performance is about bringing Formula 1 tech to the road.

that said only the C63 E-Performance has a Formula-1 style electric turbo like 911 Hybrid does so i am not dumping on 911 - with the electric turbo it has got something right.

and Mercedes only uses the Electric Turbo on a 2.0 liter engine ( which really needs it ) whereas Porsche uses Electric Turbo on a 3.6 liter engine which doesn’t even need it because it would have made enough torque without it.

so 911 continues to be RETROFUTURISTIC in that it simultaneously chases the latest tech while also refusing to let go of its century old roots.

you could, i suppose, say the same thing about AMG in that with electric turbo tech they could have used inline-6 instead of V8 but they use V8 because customers believe they deserve a V8 … even though I-6 with E-Turbo would have made for an objectively better car.