Since you are a techie, and a TV man…something to consider:
this is good content @marlon thank you for posting.
if you didn’t post this we wouldn’t be able to save somebody from buying this thing !
laser projectors are nothing new and also there are different types of screens, such as rear projection screens for example.
as the man in the video explains this is really just a highly optimized projection setup where the gain of the screen is tuned to the particular location of the projector and viewer.
the obvious problem here is that while location of projector can be controlled location of viewer cannot be as precisely controlled and the source of ambient lighting can barely be controlled at all.
in other words for system to work as intended the lights and viewer have to be in the right place.
even my regular TV throws weird rainbows if it catches certain lights in the room because my TV contains ultra wide viewing layer found in high end Sony and Samsung TVs … i can imagine the situation with this Laser TV is far worse …
but the proof is in the pudding - if this system really worked you would see it at Best Buy on display next to real TVs …
my Sony Z9J was on display at Best Buy and it looked better than every single TV they had in that store and they had pretty much all of them …
if this Laser TV shit really works they should PROVE IT. put it on display in Best Buy.
projectors have been around BEFORE any other technology. they ALWAYS were the lowest cost per inch. manufacturers ALWAYS try to push projectors everywhere including stuffing them into phones and camcorders. but whenever you look at projectors in real life they are never watchable except in a completely dark room.
if you want a TV for only dark room viewing you can get insane quality by going with OLED. i personally wanted a TV i can use as a 8K computer display for use in a room with lights on … which can still deliver good-enough quality for movies at night. Sony Z9J does that. ( it has since been replaced with Z9K, but don’t buy TVs until Black Friday )
i did like his chart showing how TV prices skyrocket after 75 inches … and that’s of course why my TV is 75 inches.
but WHY do TV prices do this ? yes there are technological reasons for this but mainly it’s because that’s what people are willing to pay.
why does a 98 inch TV cost $15,000 ? the same reason a Bentley costs $250,000. because people are willing to pay that price.
VolksWagen could sell that same Bentley for $50,000 - but why ? If people are willing to pay $250,000 they will charge $250,000.
same for why Samsung 98" TV costs $15,000. Yes they could sell it for $5,000 - but why ? It’s free money for them.
my advice is if you want a 98" TV wait a few years and they will come down in price.
the largest mainstream size keeps getting larger. it is currently 75"
all you have to do is wait.
the sweet spot today is 65" - 85" - if you can go smaller you should consider going used …
survive with a mainstream size TV long enough for the next size up to go mainstream - is my advice
keep in mind our eyes have a much larger dynamic range than cameras do. that projection setup may look like it has good enough contrast on-axis, on-camera but when you see it with your eyes in the real world and from a real off-axis angle chances are it will look so bad you won’t consider getting one for even a second.
i have never seen them, but if they were any good i’m sure they would be on display at Best Buy.
last year two new TV technologies hit the mainstream TV market that are of interest to us - namely MiniLED and Quantum Dot OLED … i have passed on both in favor of an older technology used in Z9J because i wanted the complete package product and not an inferior, overpriced, first generation product with fancy tech …
but by now MiniLED is ready for prime time and soon Quantum Dot LED will be as well ( first generation was limited to 65" maximum size ).
there are many other technologies that can potentially make it into consumer space in the coming years but ultimately as i said the proof is in the pudding. until you see that TV in person at Best Buy it’s just hype.
DO NOT BUY A TV BASED ON PAID ADVERTISEMENT such as the video you posted here …
buy a TV based on YOUR OWN EYES seeing it at Best Buy next to other TVs …
one caveat here is it is quite bright at Best Buy and VERY, VERY BRIGHT at Costco …
Best Buy also sometimes has a more shaded area called “Magnolia Home Theater” which is of course where you will find more premium TVs like Z9J …
i compared TVs at both Magnolia ( moderate ambient light level ), Best Buy Main Floor ( bright ambient light level ) and Costco ( very bright ambient light level ).
i bought a light meter and actually measured light levels in all of my rooms as well as in those 3 store environments. what i found is that only Magnolia actually approximated reasonable viewing conditions, while Best Buy main floor was closer to having all windows open and Costco was brighter than my home ever gets in any of the rooms.
Magnolia in some locations has separate rooms that have light switches accessible to you the customer. I of course turned the lights completely off in one such room that had LG QNED and it made that TV look so incredibly bad i almost couldn’t believe anybody actually buys that trash. Unfortunately it was literally only 2 or 3 TVs i was able to evaluate in the store in such properly dark condition.
to reiterate - ignore paid advertisements. don’t trust cameras. don’t even trust your own eyes unless you understand the precise difference between store lighting conditions and lighting in your home. only listen to credible experts like HDTVtest, StopTheFOMO or ClassyTech
https://www.youtube.com/c/hdtvtest
https://www.youtube.com/c/StoptheFOMO
https://www.youtube.com/c/ClassyTechCalibrations
OK Classy Tech isn’t really an expert but he is a very honest that used to sell TVs at Best Buy and is now apparently doing TV calibrations …
i only watch Classy Tech for reviews of particular models i am interested in, but i may watch FOMO and HDTVtest for more general videos about new technologies, trends and so on …
FOMO has a background in Marketing and HDTVtest has a background as a TV calibrator …
back on topic - yes bigger is better. if you can get a bigger TV than the one i have you should do it. but if the technology is legit you should be able to see it in person. my Sony Z9J is based on FULL ARRAY LOCAL DIMMING technology and it is the FOURTH TV that i have ( or had ) based on that technology so i knew EXACTLY what the limitations of the technology are and how to select a model that would fit my use case. the Sony Z9J was VERY SIMILAR to Samsung QN800A which i returned just before getting the Sony and which i tested extensively for months …
i knew EXACTLY where Samsung fell short and what Sony needed to do better …
if you’re going to jump to a technology you never experienced like this laser TV it’s a bit like playing Russian Roulette except that instead of having 1 of 6 chambers loaded you have 5 of 6 loaded.
of course if you can return it you may as well give it a shot. everybody has different expectations. at the end of the day the picture only has to please YOU not me or HDTVtest or anybody else.
IF YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU CAN RETURN IT FOR FULL REFUND MAY AS WELL TRY IT.
we’re here to help people avoid making mistakes !
but also, even regular movie theaters are converting from projectors to micro-LED ( not to be confused with mini-led ) systems.
that $150,000 display he showed a link to ? Samsung Wall ? that’s the actual technology replacing movie screens in real cinemas. Sony has the same tech but instead of Wall they call it Crystal.
this won’t become affordable for home use anytime soon but it WILL replace the screens in actual cinemas …
i know that because JBL already redesigned their cinema loudspeaker line around the fact that screens will no longer be acoustically transparent …
so if projectors are dying in the very application that STARTED moving image in the first place - what hope is there for them taking over the home ?
none if you ask me.
for home screens over 100 inches we could eventually transition to OLED screens that roll up like a carpet - i mean that technology is already in Samsung’s folding phones that i played with at Best Buy …
remember regular OLED screens made it to Samsung phones first then a decade later became mainstream for TVs …
i just don’t see any future for projectors at all …
anybody selling them should be in prison.
notice your boy in red shirt cranked the contrast on his video all the way to the max so the blacks on everything outside of the screen are getting crushed - even his hair has gone solid black - yet there is still no real black on the screen despite his best efforts to sell it.
this is what the red shirt guy is doing >
as traditional media is dying all the traditional scams are migrating to the interwebz …
i am looking at a scene at 7:23 and it shows snow in daytime as barely brighter than his face as he’s standing in front of the screen …
while the black rocks aren’t even as dark as his shirt … WHICH IS RED ! ! !
the contrast and brightness of his Laser TV are on the level of TVs we had in Soviet Union when i was a kid.
in all likelihood his shirt isn’t actually red - it is pink - it looks red because he cranked the color on the video.
look at the projector unit when he does close up shots of it - you can see the face isn’t black - it is grey.
but when he is showing the screen suddenly it is black. because he adjusted the the video settings to try to make it seem as if his magic SHAMWOW laser TV actually has blacks … ( it still doesn’t work )
put this motherfucker in prison
fuck this guy
i’ll show you exactly what i mean, look at this image:
notice the projector, his hair and the shadow on his pants are COMPLETELY BLACK
now look at this shot of the projector:
that’s what the actual color of the projector is.
and even with all that fuckery there is not a hint of blacks on the screen:
i won’t bother posting any of these comments on YouTube … people who actually bought this product would all gang up on me to defend it … this is how i got banned from all the forums in the first place. nobody wants to know the truth. they all just want to be congratulated.
bullshit isn’t limited to just Jews and New World Order - it’s everywhere.
and now look at the Sony Crystal display:
look at the guy’s hair and pants - all detail is preserved - no crushed shadows - which means no fuckery was used in editing the video
yet the blacks on the screen are SOLID and they remain that way even from extreme angles:
your red shirt boy never showed what the screen looks like from extreme angles because most likely it would be unwatchable …
here i found a video by somebody who didn’t use video editing tricks for comparison:
notice the white guy standing in front of the screen has hair 10 times darker than the black guys on the screen …
if you squint you will see the only blacks are all outside of the screen …
anyway i’m sure people will buy these anyway …
all you have to do is tell people something is “new” and they instantly must have it …
remember how we had 3D TVs ? and then we had curved TVs ?
landfills aren’t going to fill themselves !
just compare these two unedited photos:
both photos have a white guy with average hair color, grey shirt and dark pants which form a reference point for us …
the difference is with the projector the colors on the screen are muted and washed out compared to the colors on the guy …
and with Sony Crystal the guy himself looks like a pale shadow compared to the image on the screen …
i am going to go ahead and congratulate myself on this brilliant piece of investigative journalism !
no i can’t stop there i will go a step further …
i have photoshopped the guy in the top pic until he looks like the guy in the bottom pic, so we have a real apples to apples comparison between the pics using a common reference point …
this, i believe, is an accurate representation of what the two screens would look like if they were standing side by side at Best Buy.
except in real life the difference would probably be even greater because we are watching the Sony Crystal screen right now on our own screens which can’t reproduce the blacks that Sony Crystal screen is capable of.
what we’re really seeing in the above comparison is how much better the screens we already own are than the projector. but the Sony Crystal is much better still.
Yeah…missed that.
Your weaponized autism for the win!
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OK i didn’t realize the following product actually existed:
ignore the $100,000 price tag as it’s currently focused on just being a statement piece.
the point rather that it is physically possible to fit ANY SIZE TV through a window in a rolled up state.
i did some measurements and i don’t really remember anymore but i think 85" is the biggest TV size i could fit through the stairs down into the basement if i wanted to do home theater there … when i shared this information on AVSForum they suggested i enlarge one of the windows in the basement to fit the TV that way …
but if you wanted to fit say a 150 inch TV through a window you would need a pretty big window …
that problem is solved with a rollable screen …
prices is something that could come down overtime. when tablet computers first came out they were in the $2,000 range and now they’re in the $100 range.
if something is theoretically feasible and there is a market for it the economics of scale could eventually work out the rest …
i’m not claiming this particular technology will win out in the end but at least i can see how it might work.
i can’t really see how projectors could work because they fundamentally can’t hit blacks.
and regular TV panels over 100 inches simply can’t fit through stairs let alone elevators.
some of these problems are harder to overcome than others.
i would argue that it is easier to get the price of a rollable TV down to earth than fit a 150 inch non-rollable TV in the elevator or get a projector to display blacks in a room with open windows.
ultimately a projector is just a tech that allows you to roll up the screen, but we can already do that with OLED, while also getting perfect blacks.
there are also transparent OLED screens that of course can be made opaque or black using other technologies, so you could have for example an entire wall that can switch between a gigantic window or a gigantic TV at a press of a button.
i have actually seen transparent OLED screens in person.
my perspective is the future is anything BUT projectors.
but i could be wrong.
for example electric cars are a 150 year old technology that went extinct 100 years ago but recently roared back to life.
bicycles and motorcycles went extinct as a mode of transportation but are coming back to life.
projectors might come back from the dead as well.
it’s entirely possible.
but i would prefer that they didn’t.
It is beautiful.
Make it so can roll down from the ceiling.
Or make the screen holder durable with a waterproof cover so that if it gets wet, falls over etc., the TV will survive.
there are also transparent OLED screens that of course can be made opaque or black using other technologies, so you could have for example an entire wall that can switch between a gigantic window or a gigantic TV at a press of a button.
This is even better but I can imagine that costs $200,000!
the ones i saw were at a Google store in Manhattan during Pixel phone Unveil way back for the original Pixel … i would have gotten it ( the phone ) but it was completely sold out …
they had the transparent screens in the windows displaying various graphics ( ads for pixel ) while still allowing you to see through them …
i don’t think anybody sells them simply because of how impractical that would be to have a see-through TV - you don’t want to see the stuff behind your TV while watching movies LOL
on other hand there are some cars now that have a glass roof that can be made opaque or transparent at the touch of a button …
and of course an LCD layer can switch between translucent and black …
you could simply add such layers BEHIND a transparent self-emissive display to have various interesting effects …
but ultimately this is all gimmicks …
Beyond a certain point in anything its all gimmicks…
The only thing left in the TV world is to bring the price down on these super TVs and/or give the viewer robotic eyes/enhanced vision. Or jack you in Matrix-style.
But …a little reading says there is still more room…Sony has a 16K display and Quora and other sites say that would be enough to satisfy any viewer. Plus HDR improvements will continue to better color contrast so I’m wrong…there is still room for improvement.
blacks and colors are getting pretty good now with most high end Samsung and Sony TVs.
the main limiting factors are cost, size and brightness.
the premium for 8K resolution is likely to go down as 8K goes mainstream - for example as of right now none of my computers can either decode or output 8K and my TV cannot internally decode 8K either so i can’t actually watch anything in 8K despite having a 8K TV …
to make matters worse you can’t even get 8K 60p output from a $10,000 professional graphics card today because even though Displayport and HDMI both support 8K 60p the conversion from one to another does NOT support it and professional graphics cards only have Displayport while TVs only have HDMI …
and even those cards that do support 8K decoding are reported to have rather choppy performance …
when i had Samsung it did decode 8K natively but with limited 8K content available this advantage over Sony wasn’t enough to justify it’s over flaws like a chassis so thin it ACTUALLY BENT during installation.
so basically 8K is sort of here, but it’s far from mainstream. all professional cinema is 4K both on camera side and projector side.
when 8K goes mainstream the price premium for 8K should dwindle to maybe something like 10% …
Size and Brightness versus Cost will remain an issue however.
If we look at what i paid for with Z9J it was basically Brightness, Resolution and Size in that order. As time passes Resolution will be essentially free but Brightness and Size you will still pay for.
Brightness and Size both make a real world difference. A bright screen is more immersive just as a large screen is.
as a wise Black Man on YouTube said dim screens look like paintings - they don’t look like real life. Reality is the brightest TV screens today can’t hit even 1% of real world brightness levels for highlights such as car headlamps and so on. in the real world bright light is PAINFUL to look at. no screen available today at any cost reaches painful brightness levels.
HDR is a complicated subject but ultimately it comes down to brightness.
Brightness and Size.
that’s what you pay for in a TV today and it will remain this way for the foreseeable future.
Good point.
That’s another hurdle to cross for TVs.
It will be interesting what will be done for 3D movies since so much light is lost to give that effect.
i watched a 3D movie once when i was a kid in Soviet Union / Ukraine - it was cool
but the concept has been around for so long and it never really gains any traction
i doubt it will ever go mainstream except for virtual reality headsets where it is a no brainer
So Vincent from HDTVTest actually did an actual side by side comparison of a short throw projector to a TV ( set up by the TV manufacturer )
( only the first 6 min and a half are comparison - the rest is review of the TV )
his difference isn’t as dramatic as what i have shown because he used an “affordable” 98 inch TV to make the comparison fair. he actually used a $3,500 TV and compared it to a $4,000 projector.
in my comparison above in this thread i have used a TV that is about $100,000 which is of course not a fair comparison to a much cheaper projector but i simply wanted to make a point that a projector can’t match the quality of a TV - i never claimed that a TV of the same size as projector screen isn’t more expensive …
but Vincent actually found a well priced 98" TV to do the comparison properly - props to him
personally i would advise you to get a quality TV from Sony or Samsung in whatever size you can afford. there is no need to have a projector sized TV today
eventually the prices for larger TVs will come down …
IMO the larger the screen the higher the quality should be. if you have to sacrifice quality to go larger and still stay within budget then maybe it is better to stick to a smaller size FOR THE TIME BEING until the prices for larger ones improve …
last time i checked a year or two ago most Chinese brands topped out at 75" so i felt like 75" is the size to get … even if you are buying a premium brand. because without any competition from value brands in larger sizes the prices will be out of control.
TCL is of course a Chinese brand and it’s great they now have 98" TVs - that means in a few years you will be able to buy a quality 98" set at a reasonable price.
it’s also weird that TCL arranged the comparison to a Samsung projector when Samsung is TCL’s biggest customer - TCL makes the panels for Samsung TVs.
i think this projector tech has its place. moving a 98" TV to another house would be a nightmare if you don’t have the box anymore while moving a projector would be easy. short throw projector technology is innovative and impressive. but it isn’t any sort of revolution that will end TVs. it’s a very clever hack but it’s still a hack.