Lambo Temerario

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this is a new entry level Lambo that just came out and will slot just above 911 Turbo S

Lamborghini Temerario

and if i had the money i would rather get this Temerario over the Turbo S because it’s a fully modern car rather than a modernized classic like 911

the Temerario uses essentially the same layout as Corvette ZR1X with slight improvements …

like ZR1X it uses a mid-engine twin turbo V8, electric front axle and a lithium battery mounted where normally a transmission tunnel would be ( under the center arm rest ). both cars are AWD with double clutch transmission.

the difference is it uses a smaller V8 ( 4 liter versus 5.5 ) compared to the Vette and 3 electric motors instead of one.

this 3 motors thing is actually a SUBTLE difference because they only add a bit over 100 hp - their real purpose is REFINEMENT. the rear motor acts as torque fill for the V8 while the two front motors help with handling.

so the Temerario is basically a rear wheel drive V8 car with an extra layer of electric polish making it nominally AWD.

the reason i think it is better than ZR1X is because ti’s 400 lbs lighter. yes it only has 900 hp vs 1250 hp of the ZR1X but 900 hp is ENOUGH.

the reason ZR1X has so much power is because they had to start with decent power in the base C8 corvette and by the time they added DOHC, Turbos and electric motor they were up to 1250 hp.

by contrast Temerario already starts with all of those things so as a result they could use a smaller V8 and make an overall lighter car, while still having decent power.

remember the base C8 corvette actually has a LARGER motor than ZR1X. the base has 6.2 liter while ZR1X has 5.5 liter and of course Temerario has 4.0 liter but still double the HP of the base C8 corvette and more than any version of 911 including GT2 RS.

the Temerario is just a good package. whereas there used to be some debate whether 911 or Audi R8 V10 is better i don’t think there is going to be any debate - Temerario will be better than 911 in any variant.

the real debate will be whether Temerario is better than ZR1X. and of course ZR1X will be faster, but i think most people would rather have a car that is 400 lbs lighter.

or at least i would.

because i would rather be able to brake faster than accelerate faster.

Rimac Nevera R is the first car that accelerates faster than it brakes and this is not a trend i would want to be part of.

that said ZR1X may be able to compensate for that extra 400 lbs with wider tires and ultimately still be as nimble as a result.

ZR1X will also almost certainly be a better value. it will probably cost about 1/3 less while having about 1/3 more power. Corvette can do this in part because it is not imported from Europe and in part because it shares a platform with lower end versions of the car thus spreading development costs over many buyers whereas Lambo will be a much more exclusive vehicle so a much smaller number of buyers will have to shoulder the cost of chassis development.

essentially C8 corvette covers the entire range of VW AG from 718 through 911 to Temerario so it covers three VW AG platforms with a single platform and that is massive cost saving.

the reason VW AG didn’t do it that way is because they want everybody to know how much you paid for your car whereas with the Vette there will be little to visually differentiate the $250,000 model from the $70,000 model except slightly wider body and a larger spoiler.

VW wants everybody to know you’re a broke ass bitch if you get the 718 and that you’re a baller if you get the Lambo, even though realistically they could have just stripped out the turbos and electric motors from the Temerario and sold it in place of the 718 which is what Corvette is doing with its respective base.

anyway if i was in the market for a supercar i would either get the C8 corvette ( any version ) or the Temerario. the Vette offers unbeatable value in any version and Temerario should be a world class sports car that is still 1/10th the price of something like Koenigsegg or Bugatti.

by contrast the 911 is like a classic mustang that you can take to the race track.

i do think the Temerario looks cheap inside - cheaper than the Corvette, and also that it looks rather cheap on the outside as well. This is of course by design so that it doesn’t step on the toes of the Revuelto.

Revuelto’s purpose being exclusivity.

past a certain level of performance it’s about things like style, exclusivity, refinement etc. they could easily get more performance but nobody needs it.

Corvette is still going after performance like Plaid and Nissan GTR before it.

Temerario is nominally a plug in hybrid but the range is very small. Vette is just a regular ( non plug in ) Hybrid. 911 GTS is also a regular hybrid.

one downside to Vette is that AC shuts off when the engine isn’t running so in Florida you would have to keep the engine running all the time making it not really a hybrid. a PHEV like Temerario should be able to run the AC without starting the engine. not sure about 911.

additional PHEV charging hardware would certainly add weight … that may not be worth it if you can’t plug it in … if you CAN plug it in then you would be able to for example precondition the cabin without starting the engine meaning you could do it inside the garage.

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it looks utterly sensible:

Lamborghini Temerario 4.0-liter V8 twin-turbo 920 HP Caugth Testing In Nürburgring Industrypool

no crazy wing, is nice and compact, doesn’t bounce around

it looks like a better version of 718 Cayman because that’s basically what it is

the video describes it as “monster” but it’s actually a very sensible vehicle. at one point in the video it is passed by Xiaomi SU7 Ultra sedan that has 1,500 hp and is an actual monster. but i showed you already the video where SU7’s brakes fail causing a crash because more power is not always the right answer.

the SU7 ultra weighs 5,200 lbs versus 3,700 lbs for the Temerario. that’s 40% more weight. yes it has 60% more power, so higher power to weight ratio than Temerario but when it comes to braking power to weight ratio won’t help you stop when you are carrying extra 1,500 lbs of weight.

dumb fucks like to throw the word “monster” around but monsters are retarded and the Temerario is not. it’s not even an athlete. that would be the ZR1X. the Temerario is more like a male ballet dancer whereas 718 is a Ballerina and 911 is their loving parent.

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i know i am 1 year late to the Temerario party but the reason i am writing about this car specifically is because it is basically a Panamera

they both have a twin turbo 4.0 liter V8 plus about 150 electric horsepower

the difference is that Temerario revs higher and is 1,500 lbs lighter

so from VW AG you have several cars that run on the same basic premise of a twin turbo V8 and some electric power - namely the Panamera, Bentley Continental GT and now the Temerario

the Bentley is basically a 2 door Panamera but the Temerario is quite a significant departure with a mechanically unrelated V8 and electric as opposed to mechanical AWD

honestly the fact that Temerario is basically the same price as Bentley Continental GT is pretty impressive because it’s a completely bespoke platform whereas Bentley is just a reskin of Panamera …

but my guess is that Bentley has a more premium interior and is meant to be all about showing how rich you are whereas the Temerario is meant to be the affordable Lambo … kind of like the 718 is meant to be the affordable Porsche

so that’s what i find appealing about the Temerario - is that you get all the latest drivetrain tech but the price is still reasonable for a Lambo …

but it certainly doesn’t look as good as Revuelto because Revuelto has $$$ proportions whereas Temerario looks truncated - a midget Lambo

same as how 718 looks like a midget 911

this is probably why the price is so reasonable - because Continental GT is a full Bentley, and 911 is full Porsche but only the Revuelto is full Lambo and Temerario is really more like an Audi R8 with aftermarket turbos …

but an Audi R8 with aftermarket turbos is what i would want anyway. that’s where the hypercar value used to be until C8 ZR1 / ZR1X hit the scene.

of course only direct A/B driving comparison between ZR1X and Temerario can reveal which car actually is nicer. the specs can’t tell you which car is better tuned.

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the other thing to consider when comparing Temerario to Continental GT ( they both cost about $300,000 ) is that the Bentley can be your only car because it has a large trunk and even usable back seats.

Temerario has nothing, so you would need to spend another $150,000 on a 7-Series as your daily driver.

that means that while on paper Temerario is the same price as Continental GT in practice it is more expensive.

and when you consider that people actually drive their Bentleys but keep their Lambos in the garage it also explains why ( aside from the striking styling ) Lambo will get that much more attention

functionality of a Lambo is closer to that of a motorcycle than a car. it seats two people and that’s it. when viewed this way you see that Continental GT is only 2X to 3X the price of something like 7 series but Temerario is a full 10X the price of a BMW superbike.

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consider this styling detail as well. although C8 Vette, Temerario and Revuelto all have the engine in the same place they do not look the same from the outside the car:

Vette:

looks kind of boring and not aggressive at all.

Temerario:

looks more interesting and aggressive.

Revuelto:

the engine is completely exposed with “Lamborghini” insignia on the engine itself, and with exposed carbon fiber trim around the engine.

a lot more striking presentation.

because as i said a million times already past a certain level of performance it doesn’t really matter how fast the car is. it’s about the image.

races are relevant for something like Type R civic vs Type R Golf. if you’re spending a million dollars on a car like Revuelto you’re not paying for a 0-60 time or lap time. you’re buying a work of art on wheels, that just so happens to be the fastest thing on the road 99.99% of the time.

this is why i like the Temerario because actually it is NOT about the image. it is a very plain looking car inside and out by Lambo standards. it looks more like Acura NSX than like a Lambo. it’s about tech and efficiency making it more like 911 or NSX than cars like Tourbillon that are about extravagance.

there is also very clear progression from 911 to Temerario to Revuelto to Tourbillon from a car with rear seats that is borderline daily-able to something with 16 cylinders that should honestly never be driven and just sit in the garage of some collector and maybe make an appearance at pebble beach once in a decade or so.

to me the Temerario seems like a car that SHOULD in fact be driven on a regular basis, but on weekends only. and a BMW 7-Series for the weekdays.

i used to think - why would you do something like 7 series on weekdays and Lambo on weekends when you can just drive a Panamera all the time ? then i saw the procedure for replacing the air filer on a Panamera ( that involves disassembling the entire front of the car ) and the answer became obvious.

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notice how much wider rear tires are than front:

this is because the weight of the engine is in the rear of the car.

but actually Temerario has engine ahead of rear axle as well as battery in the center of the car towards the front and electric motor in the front, so it’s doing all that it can to transfer some of the weight to the front:

yet even with all these efforts clearly the rear tires are far more heavily loaded than the front judging from the relative size of tires used in rear versus front.

by contrast the 911:

basically has nothing in the front, little in the middle and most of the drivetrain BEHIND the rear axle, meaning that the front tires of 911 do basically nothing except during braking …

this is one of two ways in which the 911 is losing out on potential performance

the other way 911 is losing out is by having rear seats which is an unbelievable waste

and of course having a fuel tank in the front of the car like 911 does is not the wisest idea in terms of safety either … it really should have been where those rear seats are …

Temerario is built right. 911 is built wrong. I know that 20 years ago i used to say 911 is built right but i was dumb. The good news is that if you think Temerario is not priced right the Corvette E-Ray is basically the same thing for 1/3 the price.

if my budget is $300,000 i am getting Temerario. if its $250,000 or less i am getting corvette. i would only get the 911 if i was living outside of US, or if i had a use case for rear seats.

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when 911 Hybrid was announced i expected them to do what they did with Temerario - namely put the battery in transmission tunnel and use an electric front axle …

but instead they put the battery in the front and used a pancake electric motor between engine and transmission with the idiotic cable running all the way from front to rear between battery and motor …

but in retrospect it is obvious why they did it that way. clearly having invented this setup ( electric front axle ) with the Porsche 918

they knew what the superior setup is. but they decided to reserve it for the Temerario and use the inferior setup for the 911.

the reason is 2-fold.

1 - this allows the Lambo to be faster than 911.
2 - this allows 911 to maintain its character.

when you use an electric axle ( like in my Volvo, which has a rear electric axle ) it changes the character of the car. people buy Lambos for the flashy styling and $$$ baller image, but they buy 911 for heritage.

Porsche has decided to protect the heritage / character of the 911 by not using an electric front axle and put it on the Temerario instead, which is priced not far from Turbo S territory.

make no mistake - Lambo and Porsche is the same company. all this nonsense about Lambo being Italian and Porsche being a small company is BS. they are both VW - the largest automaker on earth. all of the technology is shared across all VW brands but with the strategy that each brand retains its own unique image and identity so that idiots believe it is a separate company.

the cult of 911 like the cult of Tesla is a disturbing phenomenon but VW is happy to keep it going because it makes $$$. yes the 911 is fast enough, but that’s not why it exists. it exists because of the heritage.

heritage is also why C8 corvette uses a 6.2 liter V8 that makes a measly 495 hp in the base model. by comparison the 2.0 liter engine in C63 makes 469 hp by itself before any assistance from electric motor. so the base corvette engine is TRASH. they use it because it’s what people EXPECT in a base corvette.

this is why dealers could mark up corvettes while C63s were rotting on the dealer lots because C8 stayed true to tradition ( WW2 era tech V8 ) while C63 broke with tradition and went for Formula 1 tech 4 cylinder.

911 was wise to avoid AMG’s mistake. they identified what makes 911 a 911 and would not fuck with it regardless of technological advantages of other approaches. this keeps the dumb cattle 911 customers coming back, and keeps reviewers saying that the car feels “right” which really just means that it feels like a 911 because they have internalized the notion that 911 = right.

see how that works ?

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by contrast a Lambo customer was deemed more forgiving of innovative tech like electric front axle. but that doesn’t mean a Lambo customer would accept just anything. VW had to completely redesign the V8 to make it rev to 10,000 rpm even though they could have simply tuned the V8 from Panamera to the same 800 hp or higher.

the reason they redesigned the V8 wasn’t for power, but to make it sound more exotic with a higher rev limiter. they didn’t want Temerario to sound like Cayenne Turbo.

so it is ultimately all about trying to reverse engineer the expectations of moron customer and moron car reviewer. they have the tech but are afraid to use it because it might scare morons away.

so the reason i like Temerario is because they actually found the balls to use some of the tech they were sitting on that they were not willing to use in the 911.

as for the 10,000 rpm aside from making the car sound like a banshee it has a side “benefit” of making the car unreliable, which is pre-requisite of a true “italian” supercar.

if they simply increased turbo boost on the engine from Cayenne Turbo to get same HP the car would not sound hysterical enough and would also be too reliable for anybody to believe that it is actually italian.

this is also why Panamera put the air filter in the front bumper because if it was under the hood the car would not be expensive enough to maintain causing poor people to drive it and drag down the image of Porsche as being a car for ballers.

do you get how it works now ?

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engineering a high end product is easy - selling it is the hard part.

nowhere is this more true than in high-end audio but it isn’t much different with cars.

sometimes a car comes out that is better than it should be, which idiot car reviewers attribute to an engineering win when it is actually a marketing fail.

Nissan GTR was a big example of this, then Tesla Plaid, then C8 Corvette.

it’s not an engineering win because it’s fast. it’s a marketing fail because they are forced to sell it at a reasonable price when slower cars sell for a lot more.

the reason i made a thread specifically about the Temerario is because to me it is a little bit like those cars listed above that have more tech and performance than you expect and lower priced than you expect.

of course everything is relative. VW is a hyper cynical company and very good at marketing so they will never fuck up as badly as GTR, Plaid or Corvette ( that is to say they will never sell for such reasonable prices ) but by Lambo standards the Temerario strikes me as a ridiculously well designed and priced car.

it literally is a Lambo Cayman to me. But whereas the Cayman was designed to sit below 911 the Temerario is designed to sit above it.

the 911 itself to me is an abomination like Intel X86 architecture that exists simply because we are all slaves and can’t give it up. humanity as a whole has simply been so far unable to overcome the momentum of Intel X86 and Porsche 911 even though we knew for decades it is an outdated and inefficient architecture.

i have more love for both Cayman and Temerario than 911 because they are both newer platforms that aren’t just an evolution of a Hitler-Era Air-Cooled VW Beetle

Temerario platform obviously being the newest of the 3, but more importantly not knee-capped by the need to lose to 911 in every comparison which is something the 718 is specifically designed to do.

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when i was young and stupid i made the UNBELIEVABLY IDIOTIC prediction that Cayman will surpass the 911 because i watched Top Gear and Clarkson ( correctly ) said Porsche was keeping the Cayman down to avoid beating the 911 …

i quickly realized that Cayman was a better platform than 911 and from there jumped to the conclusion that Cayman will beat 911 in the future … LOL

i can’t believe i could be this stupid ! the very reason for Cayman’s existence was to always lose to 911. Porsche got tired of everybody making fun of how slow base 911 is so they decided to split the base off into a separate Cayman / Boxster model.

you would think logically if Cayman is the better platform that it should be faster than 911 but as Robert Greene teaches you should never use logic in such cases - instead use history as a guide. Things will continue not in a way that makes sense but in a way that they have always been in the past, and of course that i what has been happening with 718 vs 911.

anther example is how idiots think people will see the evil of the elites and wake up … but the elites were always evil … and people never woke up before … and never will.

and 718 will never beat 911.

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@Dissident

and 718 will never beat 911.

but the good news is that the 911-beating Cayman exists … in the form of the Temerario.

everything that is wrong with both 911 and 718 is right with the Temerario.

of course in a perfect world the 911 would be discontinued and the ranges of 718 and Temerario extended until they met in the middle … but that won’t happen anytime soon because people continue to flock to 911 because of all the heritage …

because anybody can understand iconic heritage and maybe 1% can understand the technical reasons why it is actually inferior … 1% of 911 owners that is, and closer to 0.01% of general public

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reminds me of being on Rennlist forum reading about Panamera and dumb fuck Porsche owners talking about how performance improved when Panamera went from “single” to “dual”

the “single” referred to a supercharger on the old Audi engine used in Panamera and the “dual” to turbos used in the newer Audi engine in Panamera

the average income of Panamera buyer ( according to Savegegeese ) is $550,000 per year, yet these “geniuses” and supposed “car guys” do not even understand the difference between supercharger and turbocharger.

when the engine switched from supercharging to turbocharging all they can understand is that it went from “single” to “dual” and that is in their mind where the performance boost came from because 2 is a bigger number than 1, not because it is a completely different technology.

Jason Fenske ( Engineering Explained ) has sometimes sarcastically mocked retards like this on his channel in a subtle way by pointing out that “two is more than one” when talking about Turbos. Fenske is an actual engineer and he reads the comments on his videos so i know he is feeling the pain.

bottom line is neither customers nor reviewers know anything about cars and the engineers do know but they can only use technology when the marketing people allow them to do it and the marketing people know the most important thing is to avoid confusing the customer.

so it’s a complicated dance and i am just glad that Temerario takes a step in the right direction of technology, performance and efficiency where most other cars continue to cater to retards who are afraid of anything that feels different than what they expect.

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if @OldFriendSaysHello remembers he had a ( Jew ) friend in Odessa ( named Atrn ) that i used to talk to on AIM before i went antisemitic and he stopped talking to me … and one thing he said has stuck with me over the years.

at the time i had a BMW 550i with 4.8 liter naturally aspirated V8 and his parents had a BMW 535i with a turbo 3.0 liter Inline-6 and i told him that most reviewers described his engine as “soulless”

his response was that it was simply that those reviewers were not used to the feeling of the new BMW turbo engines and were basically biased towards the feeling of more classic engines like my V8 …

i dismissed his comment at first because it seemed like he was just looking for an excuse to avoid admitting that my engine was better than his, but then in California while getting an oil change i was given a BMW loaner with his engine and i was shocked by how hard it pulled - harder than my larger V8 …

i have since over the years gradually come to accept the wisdom of his words. the problem wasn’t the turbo. the problem was retard reviewers. and i was a retard for listening to anything they had to say.

these reviewers are paid to have opinions, but their opinions aren’t based on anything because they possess no intelligence - they simply reverse rationalize these opinions from how their audience feels, with the audience being even dumber than them.

and that’s how we end up with the ubiquitous advice that to enjoy a car it must have a naturally aspirated V8, rear wheel drive and stick shift and be really loud. and have stiff suspension and heavy feeling steering wheel.

this is also how Audiophiles all believe that a sound system shouldn’t have any bass otherwise if it has bass it means you have bad taste.

you can’t argue with these retards but you CAN ignore them. at least i can.

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Top Gear just reviewed it

FIRST DRIVE: Lamborghini Temerario – New 907hp V8 Supercar Tested!

he didn’t say it but it is very obviously 911-ified Lambo

that is to say they moved it from a crazy italian suicide machine to an almost daily-able vehicle with a very usable frunk

which i think was a wise choice. people today expect more power to a point where it’s hard for a 911 to compete with cars like Taycan so they moved the entry level Lambo down to something that is actually usable so that people who want more power than 911 has but don’t want to go electric would have an option …

for $300,000 this would be my choice.

interestingly he didn’t mention 911 in the video even once. this is very odd. a $300,000 Lambo should naturally be compared to something like the $300,000 GT2 RS. but he only compared it to Ferrari. also didn’t compare it to Corvette.

i would love to see this car compared to ZR1X, 911 Turbo S and GT2 RS

he ends the video by saying " if this is the entry level base of the range - where do you go from here ? " but of course the answer is - you go to more exclusive, more ostentatious and LOUDER but not necessarily better models.

it used to be that from 911 and up you weren’t so much upgrading as you were trading sensibility for insanity when you went italian but i don’t buy for one second that this Lambo is Italian - it is absolutely German

and i feel like it is a clear upgrade from 911 rather than a side grade

i was most impressed by the size of the frunk.

this is more space than you would need to hit the club or a gym.

very, very sensible.

when i first saw the pictures i thought - the nose is too long ! but now it makes sense. they made the nose this big for the frunk.

this is a much larger boot than what 911 has. of course with a 911 you can use the rear seat space for storage. but it is not smart to use the middle of the car for storage because you want to move all the heavy things like the engine as close to the middle as possible for handling. the mostly empty space like boot / trunk is what should be either at the very front or very rear.

i prefer the front actually because that way in a crash it works as a crumple zone.

if i am going to crash into a wall i would rather have a trunk in the nose of a car than a fuel tank !

[OldFriendSaysHello]

only one problem w this car, in comparison to outgoing Huracan, this new one sounds like total shit. The whole point of a lambo is its obnoxious presence which this new one doesnt have anymore due to all the EU castration.

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i agree but it isn’t just due to EU regulations.

they are also deliberately making this model less flamboyant in order to give people a reason to pay much, MUCH more for the Revuelto.

they are basically positioning the Temerario closer to 911, if not in price or performance then in terms of approachability ( more comfortable, less harsh etc. ) which makes sense when you consider the Urus already made Lamborghini a more approachable brand.

i guess brands in general become cheapened / diluted overtime. remember when BMW and Mercedes started making SUVs then Porsche followed then Rolls Royce, Bentley, Lambo, Ferrari and Lotus.

whenever there is a strong brand there is temptation to milk it for all its worth by offering it to more people by introducing more accessible models.

it seems brands enter from the top as exotic / ultra luxury and slowly move down to the bottom where they get discarded like all those brands like Oldsmobile where the brand no longer carried any cachet and went in the trash bin.

as i said before this new Temerario is roughly the break-even point where they reach all the performance you actually might want and beyond this you’re paying for presence as you said. cars like Corvette and 911 Turbo S are roughly in that segment as well.

yes Koenigsegg and some other niche automakers still push the envelope with power figures in excess of 2,000 hp but those are freak show cars. they make that stuff because they have no other way of grabbing headlines. VolksWagen Auto Group has strong brands which do not need cheap tricks to get noticed. from Temerario and up their cars simply get more SPECIAL, more EXCLUSIVE. they do not need to get faster.

i wonder who will buy the ZR1X. maybe a few collectors and the handful of guys that actually take their cars to the race track. because to 99% of people a corvette is a corvette. no chick is going to ask you whether yours is a Stingray, E-Ray, Z06, ZR1 or ZR1X. to her it will just be “corvette” or even just “sports car”

i remember talking to a 17 year old chick who thought that Porsche was Japanese and that a “Sports Car” was a car with 2 doors. that’s the problem. you can make a car fast and you can make a speaker sound good but that isn’t how you sell them.

anyway here’s a video i meant to post earlier. in the first part he drives it on the track and in the second he interviews the CEO:

Lamborghini Temerario // 10,250 RPM V8 REVIEW on TRACK with 0-270!!

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@Dissident

it seems brands enter from the top as exotic / ultra luxury and slowly move down to the bottom where they get discarded like all those brands like Oldsmobile where the brand no longer carried any cachet and went in the trash bin.

@Dissident

yes Koenigsegg and some other niche automakers still push the envelope with power figures in excess of 2,000 hp but those are freak show cars. they make that stuff because they have no other way of grabbing headlines. VolksWagen Auto Group has strong brands which do not need cheap tricks to get noticed. from Temerario and up their cars simply get more SPECIAL, more EXCLUSIVE. they do not need to get faster.

the same applies to speakers. your first speaker has to be world’s best even if nobody buys it.

then you can introduce lower and lower cost versions until eventually you are selling $20 bluetooth speakers made in China.

but if you enter with a $20 bluetooth speaker i don’t see how you’re ever going to grow out of that hole. you never hear people say “this used to be a dog shit brand but now it’s really prestigious” - it is always the opposite " this used to be a quality brand but they moved production to china and now it is dog shit "

same with people too. young people are beautiful and idealistic while old people are ugly and selfish. a one way street. an elevator that only goes down LOL

of course there are plenty of young people who are ugly and selfish but few older people who are beatiful or morally pure.

[OldFriendSaysHello]

Agreed with above. It’s just they are increasing base model pricing for the entry level and they are probably driving better than previous gen, the only handicap I see the sound. They did tone down looks a bit too. And you are right most people now will want to go revuelto who are actually car people and not just let me wear Rolex and Hublot thinking that those are actually high end watches.

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yeah i didn’t realize until a few minutes ago that Revuelto has carbon fiber chassis ( versus Aluminum for Temerario ). so the price difference is actually justified from that perspective since obviously carbon fiber is a much more premium / expensive construction.

Rouven Mohr Describes the Lamborghini LB744 Revuelto Carbon Fiber Chassis

but you would have to be driving pretty hard to notice the difference in the chassis. on other hand you would notice the difference in proportions of the car, the exposed engine, and the sound from naturally aspirated engine right away.

so they do the CF chassis to justify the price ( and also to make it lighter and stiffer obviously, but mainly just because in this price range CF is expected ) and they do the NA V12 to make the car special-er ( LOL ).

i should also note that CF vs Aluminum isn’t just about price, weight and stiffness. CF cannot be produced as quickly as aluminum so it just naturally lends itself to low-volume exclusive vehicles whereas aluminum makes sense for a more mainstream vehicle.

so going with my view that chassis is more important than drivetrain that is actually the main differentiator between the two cars, but only in ACTUALITY whereas as far as PERCEPTION goes the differentiator is NA V12 vs Turbo V8.

but this is how you want to do it if you’re smart - you want to look at appearance and substance separately and you want to make sure you have both, and they do - because they are competent.

also i should note aluminum is already stiff. steel is strong but flexible and heavy. aluminum is weak but light and stiff. carbon fiber is even lighter obviously ( by a lot, though for a compact “tub” chassis like in Revuelto it may not make a big difference for overall car weight ). most modern luxury cars like S-Class or Panamera are probably about 50/50 steel / aluminum. something like 911 is going to have more Aluminum and less steel. Temerario will be almost completely aluminum with little steel. and Revuelto Carbon Fiber ( for the center tub ).

and again i have to add that aluminum vs steel isn’t an issue of the cost of material as Aluminum is not an expensive material. it’s mainly that steel is easy to stamp and weld, while Aluminum doesn’t lend itself to those low cost methods as well and an aluminum construction will lean more or extrusions, castings, bonding etc. making it more expensive.

in other words a Macbook Pro Chassis isn’t expensive because Aluminum ( or as Apple says “aluminium” ) is expensive, but because the MACHINING to make it is expensive. This is also why forged aluminum costs more than cast aluminum - a LOT more - it’s the same material - but different manufacturing method that results in in a lighter, stronger part. a forged Aluminum wheel is probably about 3 times the price of a cast aluminum one.

so as with everything there you have to on one hand have an actually superior product but also you need the difference to be something the customer can instantly understand without having to explain it. all you have to do is pick the macbook up and you immediately feel the build quality. and all you have to do is rev the engine in the Revuelto to know you’re not in a Temerario.

as for Forged Wheels again, the customer doesn’t understand the difference in technology or material properties - but Fordged Wheels can be made in custom sizes and shapes whereas Cast wheels cannot be. so again there is real performance benefit, but it isn’t the reason why anybody makes or buys them.

those interested can watch videos on YouTube of how forged wheels are made - the process is quite impressive and there are A LOT of those videos because every manufacturer makes their own to show off.