Buses - Fuck!

[Dissident]

one tool i was hoping to use to get away from the ghettos without making the wheels fall of the car commuting was buses like this:

my logic was it has to be more efficient than driving, right ?

then i started crunching the numbers and it wasn’t looking good.

Buses like this get 6-8 mpg versus 30-40 ( highway ) mpg for commuter type cars ( say Corolla ), and on average only carry about 8 passengers ( despite having over 40 seats ).

digging for more data revealed that there actually isn’t a single study anywhere that put buses as being more efficient than cars ! ! !

every single study whether from US, Germany - doesn’t matter, puts buses at about 30% LESS efficient than cars per passenger mile ! ! !

in fact some studies put Bus efficiency lower than that of Air Travel ! ! !

Ships are still the most efficient, followed by rail … but between Air Travel, Car and Bus it comes down to occupancy …

a FULL bus is efficient in passenger mile terms … but so is a full car … the problem is both Buses and Cars typically run at only 20% capacity or so.

the reason planes can beat Buses in passenger miles per gallon is because unlike Buses planes rarely fly even half-empty whereas Buses run almost empty most of the time.

Despite this Urbanists continue to insist that Buses are more efficient … which simply IS NOT TRUE.

to be honest i always believed them ! i assumed the bus is cheaper to operate than car and we drive simply because we hate the bus. but it turns out that bus is actually MORE EXPENSIVE to operate ( paid for by the taxpayer ) than a car ! ! !

so why the fuck do Urbanists still insist on moving everybody from a car to a bus ?

my best guess is parking. buses require a lot less parking than cars do.

[Dissident]

if you want a bit more of an engineering analysis a high quality modern tour bus uses a 13 liter ( turbo diesel ) engine … compare this to an average car one might use to commute like a Hyundai Sedan that uses 1.6 liter ( turbo gas ) engine.

so the bus engine is 8 times the displacement … while also carrying 8 times more passengers.

the weight of a bus is about 40,000 lbs versus about 3,500 lbs for the hyundai, or about 12 times more …

however the bus is able to get off the line with this weight because it has a 12 speed transmission versus 8 speed in a car.

the one ace buses have up their sleeve is they last 600,000 miles versus 150,000 miles for a car …

however a new bus costs $400,000 versus about $35,000 for the hyundai making the bus actually more expensive per passenger ( assuming 8 passengers ) than the car !

basically buses WOULD be more cost effective if we could keep them even half full. but we can’t.

if we could put on average 20 passengers in a 50 seat bus we would beat the passenger car but that’s like saying if we could put 2 passengers in a a car we could beat the bus.

but we can’t …

[Dissident]

i didn’t quote any of the many tables i looked at because none of those numbers are definitive. it all depends on exact test conditions.

in the end though everything comes down to occupancy.

so the real solution may be to carpool and there are sites that allow you to organize car pools but i was unable to find anybody wanting to car pool for the actual routes i would need.

[Dissident]

more numbers:

a replacement ( new ) Volvo bus engine is $25,000

a replacement ( new ) Toyota car engine is $2,500

you’re paying 10 X more for bus engine that will drive about 8 X more passengers …

but it will last 3X as many miles …

but a lot of those miles will be wasted because the bus needs to get to you first before it can drive you, whereas your car doesn’t need to drive to you - it’s already in your garage

heavy vehicles like buses also do more damage to roads than light cars …

but they contribute less to traffic since one bus replaces about 5 cars while only taking up about as much space as 2 cars on the road …

the bottom line is - it’s close. there is no clear win for the bus like Urbanists claim.

and we haven’t even considered the salary of the driver, his pension, health benefits etc.

[Dissident]

i think we have to consider also that maintenance LABOR on a bus is probably cheaper PER PASSENGER than on a car.

because for example a bus engine has 6 cylinders versus 4 cylinders in a car. so only 50% more cylinders for about 5X to 10X more passengers. just one turbocharger in a bus, same as in a car. a bus has 8 wheels, which is 2X more than a car but not 10X more. basically the number of parts that may potentially need servicing is only about 2X more in a bus for 5X - 10X more passengers, plus many of these parts are designed to last longer since it’s a commercial vehicle and not a disposable consumer product like BMW or Audi.

more on that last point - the new Prevost bus for example has a 3 piece bumper. the corners of the bumper are separate from the middle. so if you damage the corner you only need to replace the corner, not the whole bumper. this is just an example of how a commercial product is better suited for heavy use than a consumer product that is designed to trick you into buying it and then only last the 3 or 4 year warranty period.

then there is the consideration that when you need to take a car for the most routine of service like oil change you’re losing half of your day on that. and you will lose more time for anything else like new brake pads etc. a bus company is not going to halt service for half a day to do an oil change - they have extra buses they can use while any given one is in service. you don’t have any spare cars and / or spare self who can deal with mechanics while your main self goes on with life.

there is certainly some appeal in not having to worry about engine check lights or shit like that in a bus because it’s somebody else’s job to worry about that.

of course if you lease a brand new Lexus or Porsche you won’t have to worry about any of this stuff either because those cars will run like clockwork BUT only because they’re in their first 50,000 miles during your lease …

a bus will be operated for 10X to 20X as many miles without you personally needing to worry about maintaining and fixing it …

if a bus breaks down you just get an Uber - no matter what tomorrow a new bus will be waiting for you without you having to lift a finger …

[Dissident]

what a bus ultimately allows you to do is have a NICE car that you can baby and ENJOY driving an be PROUD of by buying it used but in good condition and mostly keeping it in the garage and not putting on too many miles on it thus ensuring it stays in that good condition …

if you were to commute on your car you would have to downgrade from a sport / luxury European car to some Asian econobox for fuel economy, reliability and otherwise low running costs …

but you would HATE driving that thing more than you would hate sitting on a bus because everybody would look down on you as if you were some peasant driving a rusted Hyundai and also you would be wasting your energy on performing a mindless task of driving that shitbox instead of being on your phone shitposting for example …

so i think a Bus still has its place it just isn’t as clear cut of a benefit as Urbanists make it out to be …

[Dissident]

potholes are something else to consider.

asphalt is applied in 2 inch thick layers which is probably how deep an average pothole is

my tire sidewall is 2.5 inches high and i have had a blowout with a similar tire on a pothole in NYC, though it was just slightly lower profile and much lower aspect ratio ( wider ) …

the sidewall on a bus tire is 10 inches tall ! this is compared to 6" height of a typical curb.

so you can’t really even damage a bus rim on a curb and a 2 inch deep pothole is realistically nothing for a bus tire.

whereas if you get something like a Mid-Engine Corvette or a Porsche 911 with the crazy aspect ratio rear tires you will have to constantly look for potholes during the day and at night you will have to simply accept that you’re playing a lottery with your tires ( and possibly rims )

in many cases if you want a fast and stylish car you will have a hard time finding it with tires that are pothole worthy. for example Panamera Turbo ONLY comes with 21" rims and smaller rims won’t fit over the brakes.

Bus comes to the rescue with the monstrous 10 inch tall sidewall for total pothole domination.

[kanyewest]

I very rarely take a bus. I may as well drive and sit in the same traffic in the privacy of my car if I am going to use the same road. I don’t want to be hassled by homeless niggers if I can avoid it. If I use public transportation it’s going to be the train 99% of the time. You still get hassled by homeless niggers on the train, but you avoid traffic and get to where you need to go more quickly. And you don’t have to worry about parking.

[Dissident]

i’m not talking about public / city buses like this:

but private commuter / charter / coach buses like this:

public city buses circle around ghettos stopping on every corner, connecting baby daddies with baby mommas.

private charter buses use expressways to cut through ghettos without ever making a single stop in them. they will usually have a few stops in the suburbs … then no stops for an hour or more while driving through a ghetto on a freeway … then a few stops in downtown. they allow professionals to travel from a park and ride commuter lot in their single family home neighborhood to their downtown office job.

public city buses are for people too broke to own a car. private charter buses are for people who DO own a car ( since they pick up passengers on car parking lots ) but would rather not spend 15 hours a week behind the wheel on the same commute.

yes buses are subject to traffic but their benefit is because they are private they aren’t obligated to serve the public - only the paying passengers. that means they aren’t obligated to stop in the ghettos where bus service is needed the most - instead they only stop in areas where people can actually afford mostly unsubsidized costs of operating that service, which is to say suburbs and downtown.

the other benefit is because a bus is much smaller than a train it can serve lower density areas, which is where you want to live.

a train stop usually either doesn’t have enough parking, or enough trains ( like 2 or 3 trains per day ).

bus park and rides can offer more frequent service in lower density areas with ample FREE parking …

well, perhaps not in California … there is not enough land in California for all the Mexicans moving there …

my IDEAL scenario would be drive 3 - 5 miles to a park and ride, then take a bus 5 - 10 miles to a train station, then take the train 20-30 miles to downtown BUT it doesn’t seem to work like this in practice. in practice you have to either go Car > Bus or Car > Train or Bus > Train but not Car > Bus > Train. Like Plug-in Hybrids this solution would be too smart for the average person to understand the benefits of, and thus isn’t something that is being catered to.