actually i think this could potentially lead to a rather interesting discussion
i bet Harari would love to debate this
i’m currently watching his video where he defines Consciousness as capacity to suffer …
that said i haven’t read the article linked above - let me know if there is anything good in there !
i mean - we could extinct the animals to prevent them from getting eaten for example …
we’re already in the process of making ourselves extinct after all !
I don’t know if David Gordon is a Jew, but he sure does argue like one. Martha Nussbaum is a Jew, but that’s beside the point. The article completely misrepresents the essay and the point she makes. This is 95%+ of politically driven content these days: misrepresenting your opponent’s positions and trying to make them out to be stupid or insane. The essay is out there for anyone to read, and David Gordon even links it for readers, but I doubt more than a few people actually took the time to read the article and figure out that David Gordon argues like a slimy Jew.
Jew, Jews, Jews. An honest Christians wants to find the truth and the light and use reason to get there, but his path is constantly interrupted by these pitfalls placed by Jews who only care about winning arguments, whether it be honestly or dishonestly (and it’s almost always the latter). They make up nonsense and try to fool everyone because their religion and culture are a weird debate club where they just argue all the time and try to outsmart each other. It goes back thousands of years to the story of Jacob and Esau. They think the good guy in that story is the guy who lied and cheated in the most brazen way to fool his father and fuck over his brother. It’s remarkable.
Anyway, the essay (not the article) raises an interesting question about animal rights and how we should ethically treat wild animals given how we think it is right or wrong to treat domestic animals.
When you look at our society and see how it is basically a giant industrial torture and killing operation to produce cheap meat, a lot of which goes to waste, it’s easy to see how most people who claim to care about animal welfare are hypocrites. The same people who think it’s unconscionable to hurt a dog don’t really care that they participate in a system that abuses animals no less intelligent or empathetic than dogs on a mass scale.
OK … i read the part by Gordon first … agree with you he is an old Dolt and a waste of time.
just keeps repeating the same " not our responsibility " line over and over. doesn’t seem to have any brain activity - some kind of a fucking boomer.
all Boomers can do is repeat the same thing over and over which always comes down to " that’s how we always done it " …
Boomers = ZERO BRAIN
so then i went on to the essay by Nussbaum … seemed well written and intelligent at first and then i hit this part:
Ignorance can be replaced by knowledge, as our ignorance of what is good for the children and the companion animals who live with us has, for the most part, been replaced by knowledge. Where we remain ignorant, society believes that ignorance in such matters is not excusable: thus, a parent who refuses vaccinations for her children (or indeed for companion animals) is (in most circumstances) blameworthy for the ignorance that underlies that choice.
OK so she is basically saying that not Vaxxing your children is “not excusable”
she continues:
As for autonomy: we typically do not accuse governments of acting with objectionable paternalism when they adopt comprehensive social security or health insurance measures—or, indeed, when they adopt laws defining murder, rape, and theft as crimes and enforcing those laws.
OK now i see why she set Mises institute off and why they felt the need to respond. She is basically saying that government are the good guys. The police are the good guys. Laws are there to protect innocent victims from the bad guys.
Yeah OK i’m sorry but at this point i stopped reading.
I will only mention that i originally saw the article reposted by a Carnivore so i thought that this would be the angle ( Eating Animals ) but then i saw it was being commented on by Mises ( Libertarians ) and now i see that the real issue Mises institute saw with the essay is the Authoritarian slant …
the idea that Government knows best when it comes to everything and that disagreement with the experts is “inexcusable” …
sorry i had to stop at that point …
he doesn’t strike me as a slimy Jew, just a run of the mill idiot libertarian.
i really hope i sound smarter than him LOL.
better than what Americans do ! which is watch sportsball, drink beer and get fat.
Jew values aren’t Christian values. Christian value is to turn the other cheek. Jew value is to win at any cost.
I wonder why Jews always beat Christians. It’s almost like there may be a reason for this …
i also have an issue with discriminatory Humans / Pets / Animals categories … it’s almost bad enough to make me question my racism for binning people into Whites and Nonwhites …
i mean dogs are probably more human-like than cows just like whites are more human-like than negros but it’s still a continuum …
Unfortunately i couldn’t finish reading the essay because of the Statist / Authoritarian propaganda that made me sick.
But regardless of the essay or the response by Mises i am sure this issue will keep coming back to haunt us over the coming years as we continue to examine questions like what is consciousness, who has the capacity to suffer, what should be the limits of government’s authority and so on …
as for the question of whether nature should be Romanticized this was precisely the subject of the debate i recently posted:
it is probably not a coincidence … this issue is probably dear to the Elites somehow …
Yeah…because they see us as two-legged cattle…so why not feed off of us.
And use/abuse us like we do animals.
definitely that but also something else …
they aren’t just elitist, they are also transhumanist …
and now actually i am seeing a new and disturbing trend which doesn’t seem to have a label yet but i would describe it as transnaturist in the sense that they now want to play G_d with nature itself …
remember the movie Snowpiercer ?
remember how it starts with the elites using a novel technology to cool the planet and accidentally freezing it wiping out all life ?
Bong Joon Ho ( Director ) is a really smart guy because we’re literally headed in that direction right now …
That’s the basic question asked in both the Essay that precipitated this thread as well as in that Harari / Zizek interview / debate - the question is whether Nature should be treated as something G_dlike, inherently wise, not to be messed with …
or whether Nature, like man, should be treated as imperfect, just an accident, and something that we can improve …
i honestly didn’t see this coming because the Elites themselves are the ones who came up with Earth Worship as our new global religion to replace Christianity and Islam, telling us we must sacrifice everything to prevent the ostensibly perfect climate from shifting by even one degree, or to prevent the ostensibly perfect sea levels from rising by just one meter and so on …
now they are essentially doing a complete 180 and saying Nature is NOT perfect, it does NOT matter how nature USED TO BE all that matters is how we are going to engineer it going forward …
so they’re shifting goal posts … rather than wiping out human activity to preserve nature in its original perfect state now we are going to use human intervention to perfect nature …
OK who am i kidding - we will use both ! We will both wipe out global economy to prevent it from interfering with nature and then we will go and interfere with nature on purpose.
After all, since when do Elites care whether their BS rationalizations make any sense or not ? They do whatever they want and the job of the masses is to not understand the obvious with the help of professors and experts.
so you’re saying that Cannibalism that is currently being promoted by New York Times and others ties into this young blood transfusion trend ?
that just like the Elites rape our children today they will be literally eating us for lunch tomorrow ?
i suppose it makes sense. they’re probably doing it already.
Indeed.
We make full use of our domesticated animals from birth to death.
They make full use of us from birth to death.
But unlike animals we can be trained to accept it…even welcome it, train ourselves and train others.
Even now I can barely wrap my head about the Covid programming, the subsequent push for the jabs, and the mainstream cover-up of jab “side-effects”.
But people have acquiesced.
And it will go on right up to the end(s).
One of which is the full-on-worship of the elite.
We are already learning to worship the “experts”.
Reading “studies” has replaced reading entrails.
Where they want us to go… 
We will see but not understand…
Read but not decipher…
Complete and utter blind obedience.
Pump us so full of fear we won’t know up from down.
And people will accept the solution…
No matter how unreasonable…
Remember the movie with Depp’s big-eyed kid…
Same manipulative tactics…I’ll keep you safe from the ghost!
From Global Cooling to Global Warming…to the truly moronic Climate Change…it never ends.
this is good stuff LOL.
Good, Intelligent people will go extinct and get replaced by AI.
Intelligent but evil people will convert to Judaism.
Beautiful but dumb children will be used as sex toys.
Everybody else will be eaten.
my favorite part how by now most people understand they were lied to while also knowing that not a single person will go to prison and simultaneously believing they live in a free country
it’s like most people understand deep state killed JFK then killed his brother and everybody else who was involved … but they still go to Vote and think it makes a difference
nobody reads studies bro. even i don’t. they just say “studies show” … reality is you can design a study to show anything you want. you can cheat in any number of ways. smart people can catch your cheating but they won’t be able to explain your cheating to the average person because the average person doesn’t have the IQ to pass a statistics class let alone have actual knowledge of statistics. the average person has no choice but to accept expert opinion - they have neither time, intelligence nor education to read and analyze a study.
as i said i don’t read studies either, but i have seen a few studies taken down by rigorous analysis so at least i have an idea of what sort of trickery is usually involved in getting the study to find whatever makes those who have funded it happy.
i also know how the studies get funded. billionaires donate to their own charitable organizations to avoid paying taxes, then their charitable organizations fund studies that conclude whatever these billionaires do or are invested into is a good thing … they can always add more layers of abstraction to these scams if it helps confuse the average member of the public as to how “science” really works …
but ultimately the only source of income for scientists is the money government and rich people give them. scientists don’t produce anything except opinions so their opinions go to the highest bidder, because if your study fails to produce the “correct” findings next time you don’t get funding and you’re out on the street.
professors have very cozy jobs but to get them they must show the university that they can secure funding for studies … so the entire system of academia / science / education depends on studies producing the “correct” results, which is to say whatever those who fund the studies want you to find.
in other words science is just a formality and all it does is determine which ideas have the best funding.
but it’s so far above the intelligence of average person that all they can do is worship it as they would a G_d.
yeah:
the basic game of politics never changes. buy off the stupid either with false promises or with their own money. throw in some fear, some us vs them dynamic and so on.
i wonder why they don’t teach any of this stuff in school LOL.
the number one thing schools teach is … importance of education !
just like the number one thing parents teach is importance of loving your parents …
get “educated” trust the “experts” believe the “science” vote and pay taxes.
and don’t think too much. you’re not a conspiracy theorist are you ?